Universal Healthcare? Can it work? I'm doubtful...

[Jamougha]

DB,

*shrug* any ranking is going to be subjective. For the money the US is putting into health most countries could have a stellar system. However you slice it, the US doesn't seem to.

[Taso]

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Ugh, we already had this debate in that thread. I'll break it down for everyone:

Almost everyone favors private health care
Two or three posters favor "free healthcare for everyone" as well as bullets made of chocolate and bunnies and sunshine. And higher taxes.

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That seems like an appropriate reasonable characterization of both sides of the argument.

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hehe.

Obviously I was half kidding, but really, this discussion already took place. No one was going to budge an inch on it anyways.

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Pretty much. I find it to be a rather useless exercise to discuss the merits of a massive government program with folks who don't want the government to exist.

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That argument doesn't work against me. Sorry, not an ACist, or an anarhcist of any kind.

[Jamougha]

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I never understand why foreigners (you are British, right?) trash the US health-care system. Even if it's as costly and inefficient as claimed, it does spawn tons of R&D research that everyone benefits from. You guys should want to keep that money flowing, since it doesn't cost you anything.

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Yes, I live in Britain. I'm curious how you think the current system encourages R&D. You may be right but it's not obvious to me though.

Still I'd argue for universal healthcare. I'm just that nice a guy huh.

[pvn]

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Perhaps you should start by defining what you mean when you say "health care" and "insurance".

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Health Care = Getting care that I need when I'm sick

Insurance = Something that sucks money out of my pocket when I'm not sick

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Wow, that's a really retarded way of looking at it. And it doesn't really answer my question.

What most people refer to as health "insurance" in the US is actually no such thing. It's more of a managed care plan, which includes uninsurable services like routine checkups, immunizations for kids, physicals. That type of stuff, which is a major portion of "health care" is NOT insurable.

So when you say insurance, what do you think should be "covered" by insurance?

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As it is, your Health INSURANCE is NOT going to cover the costs of your Health CARE. Fix that problem, I don't care how you do it.

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Why is this a problem? My car insurance doesn't cover the costs of my car CARE. It doesn't cover oil changes. Or tires. Or brakes.

Why are you asking *me* to "fix" this problem?

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Nobody's brought up any ideas that will do that. Therefore, I'll give the "monopoly insurance" a shot.

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Why do you think everyone else should be drug along to suffer the consquences of your wild guessing?

[pvn]

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DB,

*shrug* any ranking is going to be subjective. For the money the US is putting into health most countries could have a stellar system. However you slice it, the US doesn't seem to.

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What makes you think that? I can think of lots of ways of slicing it that shows that the US system is "stellar".

Lots of people like to use these metrics to point out that cuba has a "better" system than the US. How many non-cubans have you heard of trying to get in to see a cuban doctor when they have a dire need?

[TomVeil]

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Perhaps you should start by defining what you mean when you say "health care" and "insurance".

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Health Care = Getting care that I need when I'm sick

Insurance = Something that sucks money out of my pocket when I'm not sick

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Wow, that's a really retarded way of looking at it. And it doesn't really answer my question.

What most people refer to as health "insurance" in the US is actually no such thing. It's more of a managed care plan, which includes uninsurable services like routine checkups, immunizations for kids, physicals. That type of stuff, which is a major portion of "health care" is NOT insurable.

So when you say insurance, what do you think should be "covered" by insurance?

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As it is, your Health INSURANCE is NOT going to cover the costs of your Health CARE. Fix that problem, I don't care how you do it.

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Why is this a problem? My car insurance doesn't cover the costs of my car CARE. It doesn't cover oil changes. Or tires. Or brakes.

Why are you asking *me* to "fix" this problem?

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Nobody's brought up any ideas that will do that. Therefore, I'll give the "monopoly insurance" a shot.

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Why do you think everyone else should be drug along to suffer the consquences of your wild guessing?

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Well then, enjoy your system where you can't afford to get sick.

[lozen]

Were not trashing your system we just think its broken. I never Realized our system Canada was ranked 30th. Damn them French. I just would not have wanted to have my surgeries in your system when i was younger and my parents had no health coverage.

Question what does the average American pay for Health Coverage?

[TomVeil]

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Perhaps you should start by defining what you mean when you say "health care" and "insurance".

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Health Care = Getting care that I need when I'm sick

Insurance = Something that sucks money out of my pocket when I'm not sick

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, that's a really retarded way of looking at it. And it doesn't really answer my question.

What most people refer to as health "insurance" in the US is actually no such thing. It's more of a managed care plan, which includes uninsurable services like routine checkups, immunizations for kids, physicals. That type of stuff, which is a major portion of "health care" is NOT insurable.

So when you say insurance, what do you think should be "covered" by insurance?

[ QUOTE ]
As it is, your Health INSURANCE is NOT going to cover the costs of your Health CARE. Fix that problem, I don't care how you do it.

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Why is this a problem? My car insurance doesn't cover the costs of my car CARE. It doesn't cover oil changes. Or tires. Or brakes.

Why are you asking *me* to "fix" this problem?

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Nobody's brought up any ideas that will do that. Therefore, I'll give the "monopoly insurance" a shot.

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Why do you think everyone else should be drug along to suffer the consquences of your wild guessing?

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Ok, to put this another way. I'm 0% interested in having health "insurance" that won't help me if I'm sick. I AM interested in having health "care" that will pay for prevention, as it keeps costs down ACROSS THE BOARD. Those things may be uninsurable NOW, while we let the insurance companies write the laws. Can you think of a reason that these things CANNOT be paid for?

[TomVeil]

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Were not trashing your system we just think its broken. I never Realized our system Canada was ranked 30th. Damn them French. I just would not have wanted to have my surgeries in your system when i was younger and my parents had no health coverage.

Question what does the average American pay for Health Coverage?

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Being a buisness owner, I'm able to get insurance through the NASE (National Assosciation for the Self-Employed), and I pay $150/month. Before my buisness partner had to quit and get a "real" job (because of health care costs!), we covered myself, and his family (wife and two kids), we paid $780/month.

[mosdef]

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As a result, people are dying in ambulances because they have to drive past 3 hospitals to get to the one that has the facilities to treat their condition.

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Source?