About Ed and Elaine Brown, the couple who refused to pay taxes..

[bobman0330]

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Doesn't make sense when you don't consider they were responses to completely unrelated statements.

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So which one don't you believe?

[Misfire]

As far as my personal belief, I've heard convincing arguments that there is no law requiring citizens pay taxes on wages but I'm not enough of a legal scholar to know if those are legitimate claims. In this case it doesn't matter.

As expressed in my first post, I believe they were principled in that they took a stand against what they believed were unlawful actions of government.

I believe (as expressed in my second post) they consider themselves to have a legitimate argument despite most courts ruling that the law demands taxes on wages. Courts obviously believe that is the "law," whether or not it is actually written in the statutes. The legitimacy of their argument, however, will be determined by a jury, who can nullify any "law" (real or imagined).

[cpitt398]

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As far as my personal belief, I've heard convincing arguments that there is no law requiring citizens pay taxes on wages but I'm not enough of a legal scholar to know if those are legitimate claims. In this case it doesn't matter.

As expressed in my first post, I believe they were principled in that they took a stand against what they believed were unlawful actions of government.

I believe (as expressed in my second post) they consider themselves to have a legitimate argument despite most courts ruling that the law demands taxes on wages. Courts obviously believe that is the "law," whether or not it is actually written in the statutes. The legitimacy of their argument, however, will be determined by a jury, who can nullify any "law" (real or imagined).

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for the record, there has been a couple of cases where a jury has voted someone not guilty tax evasion cases by the "show me the law argument"


for the other people who have stated that taxes are a must and so forth: from what Ive been told, state taxes are legal and the way to pay for the stuff you expect from your government. Its the federal taxes that people have a problem with. Apparently they all go to the Federal Reserve to pay interest on the money they keep printing for us that we cant back. The federal income tax coincides with the startup of he federal reserve also.

Apparently it is unconstitutional to charge a federal tax for various reasons

[elwoodblues]

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Apparently it is unconstitutional to charge a federal tax for various reasons

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For those who have never read the Constitution or, in particular, the 16th Amendment:
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The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.


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[xorbie]

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Apparently it is unconstitutional to charge a federal tax for various reasons

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For those who have never read the Constitution or, in particular, the 16th Amendment:
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The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.


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The constitution is not above contradicting itself.

[AngusThermopyle]

Does anybody really think he was gassed and tortured? Give me a break.

[adanthar]

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The constitution is not above contradicting itself.

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Amendments, by definition, do not "contradict" the original text.

[mosdef]

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Perhaps they believe in the rule of law, whereas, according to them, the IRS doesn't. They took a stand against what they saw as an unlawful action by a government agency. Is that unprincipled?

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I didn't mean to say they were unprincipled, only that they don't seem to be appealing to any principles in their arguments, only legalities. Now, as you point out that could be interpreted as a sign that they believe in the principle of rule of law. But people who believe in the rule of law don't typically erect barriers between themselves and the police.

[JayTee]

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The constitution is not above contradicting itself.

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Amendments, by definition, do not "contradict" the original text.

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An amendment could contradict the spirit of the constitution. The spirit of natural rights.

[AngusThermopyle]

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the spirit of the constitution. The spirit of natural rights.

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Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

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The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

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No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, But shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.

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