10k post

[Irish Mafia]

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ahnuld, for those of us youngsters making low-mid 6 figures from poker (and theres probably a ton of us here) what would you recommend as a starting point for a long-term savings/retirement plan? put away 10k a year? 20k? where would you put it? thanks for the advice.

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wow, if you are only putting away 10k a year you must be living way more baller than I am [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. Im putting away all the money that I made but didnt spend this year. there is no reason not to. My roll is big enough that I dont need to grow it (unless I want to try to move up to 5k nl which I dont for now), so other than my living expenses which are maybe 35k for the year the rest is going into my investment account.

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Ahnuld, what are your thoughts on building a bankroll compared to withdrawing winnings to a Vanguard account or whatever?

Assume a 5/10 regular with a 50k roll (I guess). I know in the past people (I think I remember both Baluga and Yves) really emphasized building a roll because your return on it was so massive.

Do you think with the current state of games past 5/10 (for US) this is still the case?

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if you can beat 5/10, your money is much much much more valuable in a bankroll than investment.

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I think he was asking if we should strive to build a bankroll to play 10/20 & 25/50 (which are quite hard in today's state), as opposed to just staying at 5/10 and, and just withdraw all profits, as opposed to continuing to build a bankroll to play higher levels. But maybe i'm wrong.

[Jeffmet3]

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ahnuld, for those of us youngsters making low-mid 6 figures from poker (and theres probably a ton of us here) what would you recommend as a starting point for a long-term savings/retirement plan? put away 10k a year? 20k? where would you put it? thanks for the advice.

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wow, if you are only putting away 10k a year you must be living way more baller than I am [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. Im putting away all the money that I made but didnt spend this year. there is no reason not to. My roll is big enough that I dont need to grow it (unless I want to try to move up to 5k nl which I dont for now), so other than my living expenses which are maybe 35k for the year the rest is going into my investment account.

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Ahnuld, what are your thoughts on building a bankroll compared to withdrawing winnings to a Vanguard account or whatever?

Assume a 5/10 regular with a 50k roll (I guess). I know in the past people (I think I remember both Baluga and Yves) really emphasized building a roll because your return on it was so massive.

Do you think with the current state of games past 5/10 (for US) this is still the case?

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if you can beat 5/10, your money is much much much more valuable in a bankroll than investment.

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I think he was asking if we should strive to build a bankroll to play 10/20 & 25/50 (which are quite hard in today's state), as opposed to just staying at 5/10 and, and just withdraw all profits, as opposed to continuing to build a bankroll to play higher levels. But maybe i'm wrong.

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thats kind of a personal decision based on how you can handle the swings, but financially, it would seem to make sense as your earning potential in poker is so many times greater than investments at this point.

[iceman5]

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nice post, this should be good. I'm pretty much completely clueless when it comes to investing so bear with me if you can.

retirement lump sum for 25, 30? 50k, 100k a year taken out? (assuming no income after "retirement") I wouldn't plan to completely stop working but would like to be set, you know, just in case. Even if you can give a ballpark of what you think is roughly enough that would be great.

investing in the things you mentioned - can I do this at my local bank or do I have to go to some sort of a company to do this? (havn't read the articles yet so if it's mentioned there forgive me)

know anything about international banking/swiss accounts? I'm looking for something outside of canada where I don't specifically need an address.

thanks

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This is very easy to do with a financial calculator. Im going to assume you retire at 50, and live for 40 years. im also going to assume that your real rate of growth on your savings is 5% a year (8% nominal, 3% inflation.)

Therefore you would need 428,977$ to take out 25k a year, 857,954$ for 50k a year, and 1,715,908$ for 100k a year.

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Actually these figures are a bit misleading. Its a commonly held belief that you can withdraw 4% of your assets each year with only a minscule chance of ever running out of money. Your figures are 5.82% which could be unsafe for someone with a very long time horizon.

It would be perfectly fine if the stock market went up at the same pace every year, but it doesnt and if there are alot of time periods in which you wouldve gone broke before you died if you withdrew that much every year.

[ahnuld]

Iceman, I just did a simple financial calculaton assuming 5% growth exactly every year. Obviously its not going to work out that way every time, I was just answering the question in a quick way.

[ahnuld]

Aragorn,

I ahree with you 100% and wrote very similar stuff earlier. I just wanted to make it clear that real estate takes alot of work and inst guaranteed riches but there is definitely a lot more room to find undervalued assets than in the stock market because of what you can personally do.

[ahnuld]

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ahnuld, for those of us youngsters making low-mid 6 figures from poker (and theres probably a ton of us here) what would you recommend as a starting point for a long-term savings/retirement plan? put away 10k a year? 20k? where would you put it? thanks for the advice.

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wow, if you are only putting away 10k a year you must be living way more baller than I am [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. Im putting away all the money that I made but didnt spend this year. there is no reason not to. My roll is big enough that I dont need to grow it (unless I want to try to move up to 5k nl which I dont for now), so other than my living expenses which are maybe 35k for the year the rest is going into my investment account.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahnuld, what are your thoughts on building a bankroll compared to withdrawing winnings to a Vanguard account or whatever?

Assume a 5/10 regular with a 50k roll (I guess). I know in the past people (I think I remember both Baluga and Yves) really emphasized building a roll because your return on it was so massive.

Do you think with the current state of games past 5/10 (for US) this is still the case?

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Really depends on your ability. Just find the level that you make the most at and stay there if your goal is to maximize earn, withdrawing your winnings. Of course you wont improve much this way, but its better than playing 100k hands at 10/20 and being break even. I think when I go pro ill switch back to trying to improve but for now its all about maximizing hourly since I have such a limited amount of time to play.

[G_Dollaz]

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i am goign to read this whole thread and most of the links when i get home bc whenever i drop like 25 i feel the need to invest some, since i'm already always cashing out 5k a week which is the max from stars w/o wire tranfsers

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I'm reasonably sure you can do a check every 2 days, for some reason it says a week but its every 48 hours.

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since you're cashing out 1200 checks you can prob do it more frequently though i do think they're workign on getting a period of time minimum before you can come back to the check cashing out screen

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I don't know about the 48 hr thing, but I can get a $10k check each week....

[snowbank]

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Its funny, when this poker thing dies out, I wonder how many players will try and convert to trading and the like to build a steady income.

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poker won't ever die out. there will always be a lot of money to be made.

i'm already attempting to transition into trading from poker, for the simple fact that if you are a good trader, compared to a good poker player, trading money makes poker money look like minimum wage.

[snowbank]

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snowbank, I love RE and plan to have investment props myself, but you cannot compare it to investing in index funds - its apples and oranges (and u should have both anyways).

Also snowbank's link is a v good read

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matthew,

i totally agree, i was just replying to the part where he mentioned he thought stocks might be better than real estate. i don't agree or disagree, it will all depend on the person and what's best for them. just wanted to point out the leverage side of real estate which heavily tips the scale on returns compared to buying with cash.

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This is a X-post (to snow banks 3 year anniv real estate post).

Anyway, Snowbank - I enjoyed your real estate post. I'm mulling the idea about buying my first condo/house whatever:

This is a little unrelated, but I'm a full time poker pro. Right now i'm renting (which obviously is lighting money on fire)... but anyway, this is my first year as a pro... what kind of difficulties (if any) do you imagine I'll encounter in trying to get a mortgage on real estate? Obviously banks/lenders have preconceived notions about professional "gamblers". If you don't mind (don't know if you know anything about this) - I would really like to hear about your thoughts on this issues.

Thanks.

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http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showth...ue#Post10142177

[Irish Mafia]

Thank you Snow.

Question though. You recommend NOT telling the bank you play poker for a living. But don't they ask for occupation in your application. Also, won't your tax returns reflect your profession?