Decisions to join or not join the military

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Are either of you... homosexual?

What, you mean, flaming? or...

It's just a standard question we ask.

No, we're not homosexual, but we are willing to learn.

Yeah, would they send us some place special?

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I don't know why that movie doesn't get more love. It is one of my favorites.

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Is that from Stripes? If so, it was pretty big at the time.

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Always have been accustomed to fighting throughout my life. Decided I wanted to be a real life, no [censored] warrior. Seriously, men watch 300 and think to themselves "man that would be cool to be a Spartan". As far as I'm concerned, I chose to live as one the moment I signed my contract. Or to paraphrase Capt. Nathaniel Fick from One Bullet Away: "I wanted to do something so badass that noone could ever [censored] with me." Physical conflict is always what it breaks down to, and conquering someone in a fight or war is the ultimate adrenaline rush, 1000 times the feeling you get from "love" or sex.

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wow, hoping its a quote from a movie or something.

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Sometimes guys like this can't handle civilian life, so if that's the case with this particular dude and he's found his place, good for him. I'd rather have him conquering people somewhere else than at the local bar on Friday nights.

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Please try not to read into my statements and assume the worst. All I meant was that life at it's essence, from insects battling torrential rain, impala's running from a lioness, and leaves of a plant fighting against other plants for limited sunlight, all base their living from the fight to survive. Of course it's because they must, and of course we are blessed in exploring the wonders of the world, the human mind, art and history all free (generally) from what our ancestors had to deal with. I'm not saying that the MEANING of life is to pick up a club and kick barbarian ass, I'm just pointing out how it's not necessarily barbaric to want to be a Warrior and look back on full experiences in which you 'earned' the right to live.


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I think that pretty much defines barbarism, right down to your last note about the notion of "earning" the right to live, especially through violence.

Perhaps the real question is whether barbaric things are all that bad being that they are virtually genetic, and as you note even in plants, terrible struggle is part of our nature. But questioning whether they are indeed barbaric seems to me past the point. Of course they are! There's just some barbarian in all of us.

Personally, I have felt barbaric many times, and was often quite capable of doing something to express it and had the opportunity, but am glad I had either the fear or good judgment at various points in my life to not do a lot of following up on it. I can't say it's not part of me, but I can't say it's not barbaric, either. It is what it is, and so am I. Plus, I often wouldn't mind being a little better.

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It's tough to want to join a team as a peon (it takes time to get into a position of any power at all) when you disagree with how they've done every single thing since you've been alive.

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Good post. To add: when you disagree with WHY they've done most every single thing since you've been alive.

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SO your telling me the reason my grandfather was shot in the leg (didnt even know which guy did it- that IS war) is because he wanted to feel like a warrior, no it is because he was conscripted and that is who you might be fighting against. Really "warrior" there right?

BTW none of my friends/family who have joined did it to be a "warrior" which is seriously the most dumbass reason i have ever heard, and one i can not help but to think is rooted in
immaturity.

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you're entitled to your opinion, just like Im entitled to my opinion that you're an idiot. You're trolling this thread...why? I've become accustomed to fighting in my life, it comes naturally, so it makes sense to be a professional fighter/warrior right? If you dont think this is a good reason then may I ask what is? IMO it's the most sound reason. Join the military to get money for college, is that what you're saying? That's [censored]. If I'm going to join a fighting force, then it certainly follows that the most basic reason for doing so is to be a FIGHTER.

Frankly I don't care why your friends or family joined, people join for different reasons. You've shown a complete inability to understand why people join the military. But this thread is about MY decision to join, not what Shadowrun thinks of people's decisions to join. So kindly, [censored] off

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To be fair in a discussion that unfortunately has gotten heated, I don't think it's the case that he doesn't understand. He simply disapproves. That's pretty much within his rights. You can disapprove right back at him, which you are doing. All seems fair to me.

Unfortunately, people disapproving of each other's motives is hard to just nod heads at and pass on by about. I think you just have to accept that each thinks the other's way of looking at things is effed up, and leave it at that.

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We all understand why it's a bad thing if someone becomes a cop just to have power over others. Now, everyone has that impulse to at least some extent, and you shouldn't let it prevent you from being a police officer if you have other, nobler reasons and you think you can do good. But if you just want to hit, shoot, and handcuff, then you are a sociopath and exactly the wrong kind of person to have a badge.

Shadowrun is just saying that it's similarly bad for someone to become a soldier solely for the killing. Now, Muresan, we know you're not a sociopath. But I think you'll agree that they do exist, and that the military would be better off overall without them.

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Do we know that? I'm making no judgments in raising the question, but a sociopath would be able to claim the same motivations as M does.

Which of course doesn't make M a sociopath himself. Just saying.

[LonesomeFugitive]

Instead of joining the military why not just become a cop? cops are getting paid over 50 grand now adays.

[MuresanForMVP]

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Always have been accustomed to fighting throughout my life. Decided I wanted to be a real life, no [censored] warrior. Seriously, men watch 300 and think to themselves "man that would be cool to be a Spartan". As far as I'm concerned, I chose to live as one the moment I signed my contract. Or to paraphrase Capt. Nathaniel Fick from One Bullet Away: "I wanted to do something so badass that noone could ever [censored] with me." Physical conflict is always what it breaks down to, and conquering someone in a fight or war is the ultimate adrenaline rush, 1000 times the feeling you get from "love" or sex.

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wow, hoping its a quote from a movie or something.

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Sometimes guys like this can't handle civilian life, so if that's the case with this particular dude and he's found his place, good for him. I'd rather have him conquering people somewhere else than at the local bar on Friday nights.

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I'm actually a very well-adjusted person. I'm not some chest-thumping, knuckle-dragging imbecile who fights someone at the bars on friday night for "grinning on me". When I get drunk, I'm a very happy drunk, which is generally agreed on by all my friends. When I get completely wasted well... I don't like getting COMPLETELY wasted. But I do have a switch that goes on and off if me, or one of my friends, is threatened in any way. I've found that I'm just good at physical conflict, and I'm willing to fight with my life for friends, family, innocent bystanders, outnumbered people in an unfair fight, etc. I have never once said that I decided to join because I wanted to "kill people." But make no mistake, if it came down to it, in order to protect those close to me, I absolutely would if it was necessary.

A couple other reasons for joining:
-Grandfather was a retired USMC O-6, who fought in Guadalcanal, Okinawa, Tarawa, Solomons, etc. He received a Bronze Star from Tarawa where he was a part of the first wave of attack (basically hurling people at a meat grinder), and is pretty much a badass. During the same battle, he was (later) Gen. Jones' XO, knew Gen. Dave Shoup (Medal of Honor recipient and former Commandant of the Marine Corps), and personally knew Chesty Puller. I took a lot of pride in that and wanted to be a part of it.

-In the longterm I wanted to be a member of the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team HRT , and there's a premium placed on those trained to operate in the "destructive arts". I figured military service would hugely enhance my chances of being selected as an FBI special agent, and later as an HRT operator.
-I'm sure I could come up with more right now, but this is longer than I had expected it to be

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I'm the last guy on earth who's going to take seriously an apology for length. Things take the time to say that they need, and that's fine. Anyone who doesn't like can skim or go eff themselves, either way.

I'm an extremely happy drunk too, like my grandpa before me, and I don't think I'd ever lift another glass if I weren't. However, I've wanted to tear the face off more people than I can count, and it has seriously scared me a good bit in the past. I can certainly understand it in others. Life is definitely full of conflict, much of it unjust, cruel, craven, and exploitive, even without coming anywhere near violence. I think people are kidding themselves if they tuck themselves into bed at night without acknowledging and taking full responsibility for the things they do which fairly deserve vicious reprisal, whether they are violent or not. Frankly, I think the world would be a lot better off with a lot more violence -- but only if I got to choose it on a case by case basis.

I still think that there is a serious problem with searching for ways to express that, and that it is too easy to find any excuse to do so. One war is as good as another, an innocent enemy just as good as a guilty. That's what you sign up for when you take on certain jobs. You abandon moral responsibility. That's what bothers me far more than the expression of violence -- the misdirection of that expression. Sometimes the expression of violence is necessary and for the good. I just think that with something of that nature, you should be the one choosing, not the one obeying.

[Thug Bubbles]

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1. I do not think MurseanForMVP is "immature" or anything bad unless his sole reason is to be a "warrior" which i can not help but think is funny.


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I think this is disturbing.

If we are going to use movies to explain ourselves, look at Bunny from Platoon.

The reality is that there are people who want to join because they really want to kick someone's a##. I don't understand this motivation myself, but I do understand that it comes from some sort of glorified image of what it means to be a man, or a warrior, I suppose.

I don't find the above disturbing. I guess some people think it is good to help or protect other people. A doctor cannot be faulted for this, nor can a person be faulted who would believe that going to protect the tutsus is just.

I find it disturbing that the main motivation for some people is that they want the adrenaline rush of simply going out, living in the sticks, and shooting guns. Some people have this as an image of being a man. I don't agree with this.

I don't know MVP's reason for wanting to join the military, but I think that the adverse reaction to your writing is because some people think you are joining for the second reason, but using the first as a blanket.

The biggest problem with explaining yourself, is that there seems to be no good reason to go and risk life and limb on a war that makes no sense (to many posters) what-so-ever, thus you appear to want to join for the sake of playing cops and robbers. Nor have you really mentioned that you are joining for the sake of helping Iraqi women have their pre-invasion freedom back, or to help re-build the police force, or do anything good that will result in peace.

You say you want to be a warrior, and that conjures up images of Conan the Barbarian.

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I'd first: ask what does it matter, so long as they abide by the USMJ. More importantly, aren't you reading into things a bit much? Maybe his first post could throw you off but his subsequent posts clarified the issue a bit, so thinking that he wants to run and gun for the [censored] of it is an exaggeration. And given my posts defining what I think a warrior is, has absolutely nothing to do with your fears.

Regardless, I still don't see why it's a bad thing to have people literally lust for battle when we need people like that in the times we live in.

Shadowrun

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SO your telling me the reason my grandfather was shot in the leg (didnt even know which guy did it- that IS war) is because he wanted to feel like a warrior, no it is because he was conscripted and that is who you might be fighting against. Really "warrior" there right?

BTW none of my friends/family who have joined did it to be a "warrior" which is seriously the most dumbass reason i have ever heard, and one i can not help but to think is rooted in
immaturity.

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What the [censored] is your problem? Can you have a conversation without being insulting?

How do you infer from my post that I think everybody who joined the army did it for one reason? How do you infer that I'm saying that one reason is to be a warrior? How do you infer that I'm talking specifically about the military?

Question: Do you feel that armed conflict is ever justified?

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Joining the military is fine, i have no problem with it. The only problem i do have is someone doing it solely based on the idea they are doing it to be a "warrior" (which is what i inferred from your post because it seems your were only talking about this)

Sure, there are plenty times of armed conflict is justified, if your Catholic the crusades were justified and if your a extremist Muslim killing jews and blowing yourself up is justified.

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And what does that mean? I assume your Crusades answer means "No, armed conflict is never necessary". Well what about my previous question about taking arms in protection for Tutsi's who were being systematically slaughtered while all manner of diplomatic and economic retaliation did nothing to stem the tide of hacked humans lying in abandoned churches (btw, nothing in this last sentence was exaggerated). What about French, Polish and German nationals fighting Nazi and Italian armies? What about the Milosevic’s, Pol Pot’s and Taylor’s of the world committing acts of genocide? Do you see a way to solve those problems without armed conflict?

Maybe I completely misunderstood your statement, but you didn't answer my question directly and clearly the Crusades are not a "justifiable" reason to war, so I can only assume one answer.

With respect to your first point, what is your definition of a Warrior? You say enlisting to be a 'warrior' is laughable. If you join a military, why wouldn't you want to train yourself to be as capable in your warring field as you can be? To be clear, we're talking about combat troops, not ancillary forces, rather front line fighting soldiers. If you are such a person, why in the hell wouldn't you try to be as warrior-like as you can be since you're going to face war inevitably?

And if we could leave out the snide [censored] I'd be appreciative.

Blarg

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Please try not to read into my statements and assume the worst. All I meant was that life at it's essence, from insects battling torrential rain, impala's running from a lioness, and leaves of a plant fighting against other plants for limited sunlight, all base their living from the fight to survive. Of course it's because they must, and of course we are blessed in exploring the wonders of the world, the human mind, art and history all free (generally) from what our ancestors had to deal with. I'm not saying that the MEANING of life is to pick up a club and kick barbarian ass, I'm just pointing out how it's not necessarily barbaric to want to be a Warrior and look back on full experiences in which you 'earned' the right to live.


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I think that pretty much defines barbarism, right down to your last note about the notion of "earning" the right to live, especially through violence.

Perhaps the real question is whether barbaric things are all that bad being that they are virtually genetic, and as you note even in plants, terrible struggle is part of our nature. But questioning whether they are indeed barbaric seems to me past the point. Of course they are! There's just some barbarian in all of us.

Personally, I have felt barbaric many times, and was often quite capable of doing something to express it and had the opportunity, but am glad I had either the fear or good judgment at various points in my life to not do a lot of following up on it. I can't say it's not part of me, but I can't say it's not barbaric, either. It is what it is, and so am I. Plus, I often wouldn't mind being a little better.

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Ok, I can see where you're coming from but this does stem from a semantic argument. What you post is similar to what I'm conveying. A little bit of "that" is in us, and while we rightly push it away in favor of a more enlightened path, we don't live in a world that allows banishment of such feelings. There are times when we must be "barbaric", as you put it. All I was trying to say is that training yourself to prepare for 'that' is not as harmful as we are told to think.