Are we bluffing pf?

[tubasteve]

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I disagree with 3-betting small pocket pairs because they do not play easy post flop and they do have some showdown value until you're in a 3-bet pot.

I'd rather call preflop and call/float most flop bets.

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ummmm small pocket pairs are the easiest hands to play in NLHE. either you hit a set or you dont...and play your hand accordingly. if you 3-bet 22 in the BB and the guy calls a c-bet, youre done unless you have a set. its easy.

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so you're reraising preflop inorder to miss your set 7/8 of the time and then give up? i guess that makes it easier to play, but it also seems like a poor way to play them.

Speed's post was correct that you can't call for set reasons only. But I think he's wrong that the highest +EV play is to 3-bet them. I believe that most small pocket pairs have some showdown value against a wide range and should be played for that reason.

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if you're trying to get to showdown often with small pps thats just a bad idea, especially when OOP. you're already behind almost any range preflop, so you're just hoping that the guy doesnt have a higher pair or hit one of his overs on you, which could be any card on the board.

the answer isn't to always 3-bet, its to 3-bet occasionally for deception and as a bluff.

[carrotsnake]

"22-77. These hands play very poorly on their own so they need some help. 3betting these hands allows you to get more value out of them because your opponent will fold most of the time. If he does not fold they play pretty well post flop. "

Wow, just wow. One thing this thread shows is how completely unwilling all of you are to play postflop poker, especially oop. Heres a challenge, for 5k hands try and play 35/25 poker at least. I'll prop bet almost all of you on this that you can't make a profit because all of you seem to be way to afraid to play postflop. Yes, this probably sounds egotistical, but the plain fact is if you don't get better at playing postflop, you will never be able to move up a significant amount.

You should be better than your opponents postflop guys, you read 2p2 [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. Not only that, your opponents make MORE mistakes postflop that pre in general.

also, to whoever said we need to 3 bet AQ/JJ vs an UTG raise because we are in front of their range, realize you are in fact NOT in front of their calling range in general(against a solid opponent).

[RainbowBright]

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so you're reraising preflop inorder to miss your set 7/8 of the time and then give up?

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Your opponent is gonna fold pf 6/8 times.

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this is true of 32o as well.

[BGnight]

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so you're reraising preflop inorder to miss your set 7/8 of the time and then give up?

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Your opponent is gonna fold pf 6/8 times.

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this is true of 32o as well.

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then 3bet that too if u want

[traz]

Yes but we're never going to call with 32o. We ARE going to call with 22, so the EV comparisons are different.

[tubasteve]

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so you're reraising preflop inorder to miss your set 7/8 of the time and then give up?

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Your opponent is gonna fold pf 6/8 times.

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this is true of 32o as well.

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yeah but 32o doesnt flop a set 1/8 times. don't just say [censored] without explaining why you're saying it, it makes you look dumb. at least when we have a PP, if we get called there is SOME kind of backup plan.

[carrotsnake]

I'd rather 3 bet 32o in position than 33 or 22 by far :/

[tubasteve]

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I'd rather 3 bet 32o in position than 33 or 22 by far :/

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same here...to clarify all my comments in this thread refer to 3-betting small pairs when OOP. i would almost never 3-bet them IP unless i was just mixing up my play against a regular.

[loosbastard]

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I'd rather 3 bet 32o in position than 33 or 22 by far :/

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QFT. 3-betting 33/22 from the blinds against an LP raise is fine...but in position we're just bloating the pot and minimizing our positional advantage w/ a hand that plays pretty well post-flop.

I also disagree in regards to 3-betting suited connectors. I'd much rather 3-bet 67s than JTs. The smaller ones just play so much better against most calling ranges since 1)they are rarely ever dominated, 2)they're easier to get away from if we flop something marginal like top/2nd pair, and 3)it usually does wonders for your image if you get to showdown.

[Womble]

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"22-77. These hands play very poorly on their own so they need some help. 3betting these hands allows you to get more value out of them because your opponent will fold most of the time. If he does not fold they play pretty well post flop. "

Wow, just wow. One thing this thread shows is how completely unwilling all of you are to play postflop poker, especially oop. Heres a challenge, for 5k hands try and play 35/25 poker at least. I'll prop bet almost all of you on this that you can't make a profit because all of you seem to be way to afraid to play postflop. Yes, this probably sounds egotistical, but the plain fact is if you don't get better at playing postflop, you will never be able to move up a significant amount.

You should be better than your opponents postflop guys, you read 2p2 [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. Not only that, your opponents make MORE mistakes postflop that pre in general.

also, to whoever said we need to 3 bet AQ/JJ vs an UTG raise because we are in front of their range, realize you are in fact NOT in front of their calling range in general(against a solid opponent).

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I actually agree with this and I do the same. I get so confused playing OOP I generally get very tight.

Thing is, if other people are like me, even if they want to, they dont know how. I would love to start learning to play OOP but I dont know how to start seeing as I am unsure which hands I should be playing to start with. Its all very well saying - call raises/3bets OOP but if you are doing it with all the wrong kinds of hands it wont matter how good you get.