le greatest foreign language films

[pryor15]

the thing is, you can read that as a knock on Criterion, but where would be without them?

i mean, Criterion does so much for classic film, both American and foreign language, that just the word that a film you're really looking forward to is going to be a Criterion release is cause for celebration

it's not really surprising that Criterion has defined a generation's film knowledge

[thecincykiddo]

A knock on Criterion? I wouldn't want anybody to read too much into what I was suggesting.

Just this: What if there's more to it than that? I don't think I know anything about the decision-making process behind what films get selected for (..refurbishing?) but am I the only one who finds it ominous or at the very least midly portentous? I can't be the only one, or else who would be taking the time to organize the undertaking? It seems like it has got to be about more than people trying to direct other people's eyes towards certain films; or, is it on some level a way to get people to notice how their own favorite films don't seem to be out there and to contact Criterion about that.

[Blarg]

Isn't there always a "best of" something going on somewhere? I think it's just human nature. We like lists and discussing them and the drama involved with discussing them.

[pryor15]

Cincy,

this has really evolved as a response to one of those other lists that trended a lot more Hollywood and recent than anyone expected. it kind of got run over by the AICN crowd

[thecincykiddo]

Curiouser and curiouser.

The lists themselves don't impress me in any detectable way (which I find appealing), but I like the one you have compiled. It's thoughtful and well-rounded, and a bit out of sync with a lot of pushes toward hitting all of the highlights in one fell swoop...

Which may or may not be indicative of a trend in your own film watching to keep your original impressions with a film in closer counsel than the preferences or perceptions of others... If I have your meaning of the AICN crowd correctly, that is.

[pryor15]

well, what i meant by the AICN crowd is that someone got the idea to have the online community do a top 100 ever list in response to the AFI list. this process (which had a similar nomination round) resulted in stuff like Dekalog or Scenes From a Marriage not making the first cut, and the end list sucked, mostly because there were a lot of people voting the whole way who thought cinema was invented by George Lucas. essentially, it was like polling OOT or AICN--lots of recent sci-fi, comedies, etc., only with Citizen Kane and the Godfather in there too.

this sounds interesting in abstract, but it was embarrassing. a couple of people very much regretted that their name was on it.

example:

1. The Godfather
7. Jaws
11. Pulp Fiction
13. Star Wars
16. The Shawshank Redemption
28. The Matrix
30. Die Hard
31. Back to the Future
47. This is Spinal Tap
61. A Clockwork Orange

and so on. it was ugly

[thecincykiddo]

That sucks. That's like getting ready to break the ice on a hot date and having a sub show up to let you, y'know, have the night off. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Were you one of the embarrassed? I can only imagine.

A lot of this, AFI response list or not, looks like the shallow stuff my tv-loving younger brother would have come up with, as opposed to critics -- or even aspiring critics. Lacking in any real theory can be such a crutch.

I remember a screenwriting class in which the instructor fast forwarded through Die Hard to explain basic screenplay structure, etc. But it wouldn't be hard to imagine certain of my more impressionable classmates thinking that meant or at least suggested that Die Hard fell into a higher echaelon of film, when I think the instructor was just trying to put old VHS to some use.

[pryor15]

i was on record as calling it "a joke" and said,

"just because someone has a blog and can string 200 words together about film doesn't mean they should be speaking with any authority any more than the drunk guy at Fenway Park should be telling you who to pick up for your fantasy baseball team.

there's a backlash, i guess, again so-called elite-ism, this whole idea that everyone's opinion is equally valuable, but you know what? that's [censored]. Occasionally, i'll have someone tell me, "well, that's your opinion...", but it isn't really an opinion. it's an educated analysis. there's a difference.

in situations like this, i think at least some effort needs to be made toward elite-ism, to make sure people voting have some semblance of a clue what they're talking about, which clearly didn't happen here."

[Blarg]

I remember we had a good discussion on elitism not being out of place when you're talking about judging quality. How do you judge the elite of films, after all, if you don't really know what could be elite about them or why? It's not true that anyone's opinion is worth as much as anyone else's in every instance.

[pryor15]

yeah, everyone has this need to feel like their opinion matters, but it doesn't always, and that's hard for people to hear.

if it were engineering or quantum mechanics, people don't mind. but since everyone watches movies, they feel like they have a valuable opinion. obviously, that isn't always the case.