What is sin (or evil)?

[PLOlover]

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We're kind of going off on a tangent, but I still don't understand the logic.




There's lots of this stuff on the web. I can't think of any better way to say it. I can't give you precise details on exactly who will be saved. If you hear the Gospel and reject Christ the Bible says you can't be saved. What happens with those who don't hear is uncertain. But God is just and I can't see past that.

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well in revelation it is pretty clear that the devout christians or whatever will be resurrected first and get a free pass on judgement, while the rest face judgement day based upon their actions. explicity says actions.

[NotReady]

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How can an unbeliever genuinely repent if they had no choice but to do bad actions until they were given the Faith?


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How can the dead hear His voice?

I'm sure you know the Reformed position. There remains some element of mystery. Bottom line is "Repent and believe". You don't have to know how your digestive system works in order to eat and benefit.

[Peter666]

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How can an unbeliever genuinely repent if they had no choice but to do bad actions until they were given the Faith?


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How can the dead hear His voice?

I'm sure you know the Reformed position. There remains some element of mystery. Bottom line is "Repent and believe". You don't have to know how your digestive system works in order to eat and benefit.

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The "Reformed" positions vary. I think you believe the Calvinist position and are advocating predestination.

While I don't have to know how my digestive tract works to benefit, I do have the choice of putting food in my mouth. It seems that your God has the keys to the fridge, and force feeds certain people while letting others starve to death arbitrarily. Is that accurate?

[NotReady]

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God has the keys to the fridge, and force feeds certain people while letting others starve to death arbitrarily. Is that accurate?


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Nope.

[KipBond]

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God has the keys to the fridge, and force feeds certain people while letting others starve to death arbitrarily. Is that accurate?


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Nope.

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Yeah, the "arbitrarily" word messed it up. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Other than that, though, it's pretty accurate. God chooses those whom he will save (Unconditional Election), others will not be saved (Limited Atonement), and those whom he chooses cannot resist (Irresistible Grace).

It's the most logical interpretation of the Bible -- if Peter666 (is he a Satanic Saint?) doesn't understand that, then he's not very logical.

[bunny]

I think there is an absolute morality and "Is this act evil?" has an objective, ultimate answer. Some of our acts are evil and some good in the same way that some numbers are prime and some arent. I think we have the ability to distinguish between right and wrong, but also that there a whole host of pressures/desires leading us to choose selfish acts over good acts.

Ultimately, I believe sin to be where your selfish motivations win out over your desire to "do the right thing".

[KipBond]

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I think there is an absolute morality and "Is this act evil?" has an objective, ultimate answer. Some of our acts are evil and some good in the same way that some numbers are prime and some arent.

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Pick Two:

[ ] You have thought about that very thoroughly.
[ ] You honestly believe what you said.
[ ] You are a fairly rational, intelligent, and sane person.

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Seriously, you can't really think that is true, right? I mean, either a number is prime or it isn't. Always. By definition. Is every action either good or evil (i.e. never neutral)? And if it is, it is objectively so? No way you believe that, right?

[wtfsvi]

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No way you believe that, right?

[/ QUOTE ] The prime numbers thing is not a perfect analogy, because some actions are more evil than others, while numbers can't be more or less prime. But apart from that, what is wrong with believing in absolute morality? It's a really natural thing for a Christian to believe.

Do you not believe in absolute morality? If so, does that mean you don't believe in right and wrong? I'm not trying to win you over or anything, but that question should make it clear that to believe in absolute morality is not ridiculous.

[Taraz]

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There's lots of this stuff on the web. I can't think of any better way to say it. I can't give you precise details on exactly who will be saved. If you hear the Gospel and reject Christ the Bible says you can't be saved. What happens with those who don't hear is uncertain. But God is just and I can't see past that.

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Again, we're on a tangent and I would still like to hear opinions on what 'evil' means to everybody.

With that said, don't you think it should be different for those who have 'heard the Gospel' in different ways? Surely someone raised in a Christian family has the upper hand over someone raised in a Muslim community somewhere. Shouldn't there be different standards for everybody since we all come from different scenarios?

I know you say that you don't know who is saved and who is not, but then shouldn't you hesitate or abstain from proclaiming the methods of this salvation? I know that you believe that one way to salvation is through Jesus Christ, but if you readily admit that you don't know what happens in all cases wouldn't it be prudent to say that this is just the only way that you know of for sure? I think your statement would be better formulated if you said, "the only way I know to salvation is through Christ, but I'm sure God judges people fairly and He might have other methods." It would make a lot more sense and would, frankly, sound a lot less condescending/arrogant.

[MidGe]

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Again, we're on a tangent and I would still like to hear opinions on what 'evil' means to everybody.


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To me evil is a denial, an untruth. It is positing a god on one's side that is benevolent when all evidence point to the contrary.

Why is that evil? Because it absolves one of any responsibility and leads one to be manipulated by others that have even more selfish or unbecoming aims.