Cheating in Online Poker

[uclabruinz]

Maybe this is not worth my time, I do not know. Like I said, this all came about from Adanthar's statement in ActionJeff's thread about just how big the problem is. Perhaps I interpreted that to mean more then Adanthar intended. Adanthar, why don't you clarify and give specifics? What were you talking about and what is the scope?

[Ansky]

Heres a thought,

The vaginas who know who is cheating and aren't saying anything, stop being such vaginas.

You can tell me and I will report them. And oh, I have no feelings like I'm a scab- I am friends with and a member of the poker community, not the cheating poker community.

Multiaccounting is cheating. If you do it I hope karma gets the best of you.

[shaundeeb]

guys seriously this being cleaned up and exposed is good for us on every level. I think more or less you are trying to help some friends of yours more then protecting yourselves. I find it funny some people who I am pretty sure were very vocal during the ZJ JJ thing now all of a sudden are not as gun ho about it with fear of someone they know getting caught. Because I along with probably all of you esp those in vegas this summer have heard a lot of things problem is A we have no physical proof B it's all hearsay C most of us myself included wouldn't put the effort anyway to prevent something on such a massive scale.

What I worry about most about exposing this is more people doing it finding out it is happening everyday and how many people getting away with it. I'm actually happy I suck so bad with computeres while it def would help my $EV I could never do it and would never be able to even attempt it on the scale others are doing it.

[Caldarooni]

Andathar,

I don't know how you can possibly make a distinction in what the "fish" have the right to know. Maybe they will play in the games, maybe they won't. Give them the information and let them decide if they ever want to move up.

Furthermore, maybe poker needs to dry up some before the policing gains a serious effort. These posters who say "well we really cant stop it", might change their position when $EV opportunities become far and fewer between.

It might be time for poker to take a step back for it to move forward down the road.

[illini43]

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It might be time for poker to take a step back for it to move forward down the road.

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To echo this sentiment:

If this issue is not properly addressed, there will always be a major impetus to online poker being 'accepted' by the general public and maybe even officially recognized and sanctioned by the US government down the road. There has to be some measures above what is currently being taken to ensure a greater integrity of the games. It's fairly obvious the T&C of each site need to be updated so there is absolutely NO gray area. IM cannot really be controlled, but logging into different accounts from different locations can be.

Instead of trying to cover this up and keep it in the poker world, why not blow the lid off the whole thing? Seriously, let's say the UIGEA is close to getting repealed and this information comes out about "cheating". If players can get through loopholes to play with, at best, "gray area" integrity, that doesn't do anything to help the acceptance of the game.

I think addressing this issue now, while online poker is still in murky waters in the US, instead of later as this unconstitutional law eventually gets repealed, will be much better for the game in the long run. Yes, it could get yucky and hurt peoples $ev right now, but I think it would be more beneficial to everyone.

And for those players who know of multi-accounters and aren't reporting:

I don't understand how you could accept a "friend's" shady actions, especially involving large sums of money, and not say anything about it, even if you felt it was wrong. You all must really have no friends if you value relationships with people who cut corners and take every single advantage they can get, no matter how much they trod over other people along the way. You should be [censored] ashamed of yourself. I hope that when you lie on your deathbed surrounded by mountains of cash you won off the backs of people playing the game with ONE account for EACH tournament and think back over your life and realize what a low-life POS you are.

I'm out.

[Oatmeal]

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EC10, Ansky, and Noah, your opinion in general is very valuable to me but not without further explanation as well as alternatives for dealing with what is apparently the very large scope of this problem. Why do you think publishing an article to make people aware of the extent of online cheating, and what people can do to prevent it, is a bad idea? I sure hope it's not for the reason that I suspect.

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Because whether or not you want to believe it, it's impossible to stop. And at the same time, driving people away from the game or bringing bad press to the game is damaging to us all.

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I am not surprised at all that your position is to do whatever is best for your own bottom line. Someday, hopefully, with some maturity, you will understand there are more important things then $EV.

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I knew you had developed the opinion that Jimmy sanctions/ approves of online cheating based on your replies in the last thread. I think you have completely misinterpreted his posts and have developed a biased opinion based on this misinterpretation. Presuming his opinions on the subject are based on a +EV situation for him is very insulting and completely wrong. Additionally I think I'm a much better judge of his maturity level, character, and values, and I think you owe him an apology.

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Anyone else find this as hilarious as I do?

[DVO]

All of this stuff is going to come out anyway, eventually. Far better for good, ethical online players to address it, and try to fix it from within, than the eventual alternative.

UCLA is right. How can you argue against exposing the truth??

[0evg0]

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All of this stuff is going to come out anyway, eventually. Far better for good, ethical online players to address it, and try to fix it from within, than the eventual alternative.

UCLA is right. How can you argue against exposing the truth??

[/ QUOTE ]

cuz it ain't my job nukka

and you taking away my moneys by doing a job that ain't yours neither

i'm neither judge, jury, nor executioner.

i have a problem with not doing the easy work of turning in known cheaters, but to sacrifice my own money to punish those less scrupulous? nah, they'll get what's coming to them from a place that actually is in charge of dealing with this type of stuff. and that palce is not my home.

[Ship Ship McGipp]

i'm not going to lie, if this was as easy as "belowabove2" and "lilholdem2" in the 109r and 1k tuesday suddenly, i'm pretty sure i'd just go ahead and approve of it, and then see if annette_16 wanted to paly also

[Jurollo]

The argument that is -EV so we shouldn't do it just further exposes the divide I see everyday here between people without a whole lot of life experience outside of poker and people who do. The whole thing comes to two fairly simple equations that everyone needs to ask themselves:

A) Is my EV lost from multiaccounting pro's > or < the lost EV from an article decrying those who cheat and its effects on fish

and

B) Is my EV gained short term by not alerting the general public > or < my EV gained long term by creating transparency?

If you must look at things in an "EV" perspective please do so with these two questions.


A few others musings:
-This problem is far less a problem then some are making it out to be
-It is a very complicated problem that would require an exhaustive effort to truly fix
-The analogy to the baseball steroid era is a, frankly, brilliant one in that it explains, with pinpoint precision the fact that for problems such as cheating (multiaccount, et al) and steroids things work on what works out to be a public opinion "reverse bell curve" The game's reputation is hurt short term only to rebound long term from transparency and rule changes. Something to think about.
~J