An absolutly WORLD CLASS play in my opinion......your thoughts please

[WhiteKnight]

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Some[one] posted the aphorism "a broken clock is right twice a day." That is a perfect description of this laydown.

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zOMG repsect! Way to take the ball and run with it, succinctly explaining why this line of reasoning is correct with a real-world example. The link was rather humerous, especially with your caption.

[qpw]

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- THERE IS MUCH MORE TO POKER THEN PROBABILITY !!!


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Poker starts and ends with probability.

And the middle is stuffed with it as well.

It is the essential heart of the game.

But just as everywhere else outside maths lessons, probability is not just about equation or tables.

It's fed with real world information to help you achieve what you want whether that's the correct trade off between freedom and safety legislation or winning a poker game.

However, probability maths can actually be described by the same aphorism coined for computers: garbage in, garbage out.

[qpw]

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Anyway, Brunson explains it perfectly, he outlines what great poker players have and one of the more important traits is ESP. Now, before all the laughs and jeers, I will tell you a secret--many very successful big cash game players agree. But no one says it aloud. With all the evidence for the reality of simple but uncontrollable abilities to extend the senses, I don't know why it's all still equated with witchcraft and astrology - sometimes...you just know. The trick is: recognizing when you really know and when you just wish you knew.

Let the derision commence.....

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I'm not going to laugh or jeer, but I would point out that if you are playing against someone who keeps beating you for no reason you can see, then whatever is happening will, in your perception, be no different to ESP.

Indeed, where your nemesis has built up their skills by years of experience and shrewd observation, it may be that to them it seems they are working by ESP.

But no credible experiments have ever found a trace of ESP, so experience, taking the form of an understanding of probability that is not based on (learned) maths, reading tells, quickly analysing an opponents style, etc, are what is really responsible for these apparantly psychic abilities.

[tarheeljks]

these claims about esp are just absurd.

[Gonso]

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I`m gonna guess that some of you know-it-all pricks know the hand with Doyle Brunson and Chip Reese where Doyle layed down QQ on a baby flop after a bet from Chip (KK).

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Flipflop,

The fact that you equate this scenario with the hand OP posted kind of shows where you're at. There are countless circumstances where folding an overpair is a not only a good but even a standard play, especially with QQ. You're always miles behind AA, KK and sets, then there's two-pair hands and so on.

You seem a little frustrated, also. Everything okay at school?

[tarheeljks]

if anything, it's better to make this sort of laydown in a tournament, where there is no tomorrow if you bust. you are giving live players too much credit, esp tourney players. there's a reason so many people around here call them "donkaments."

[El_Hombre_Grande]

Read Super System again. If you are suggesting that Brunson lays this hand down, LOLOLOLOLOL. He repeatedly states that there are some instances where you are going to lose all your chips. This is one of those instances.

Actually, ESP is the only viable reason I can think of to lay this hand down. If I had ESP, I would lay this down. But short of that, the ratio of hands he could/should be betting that I beat far outweighs the number of hands he could/should be betting that beats me, and there is already a pot.

Of course, you could avoid losing all your chips here by simply folding, and waiting for the nuts. It's called being weak tight, and it beats NL 10 and nothing further.


In other words, you are destinied to lose this hand if you push. However, if you make this weak tight laydown as part of your game, you are destinied to be an overall loser.

And showing its the absolute worst, if anyone at the table has a heartbeat or a brain. You just announced your willingness to fold pretty much anything to aggression on a dry board. Hopefully Gus Hansen or Phil Ivey aren't at your table. Oh, I forgot. You're "world class" weak tight.

[qpw]

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Actually, ESP is the only viable reason I can think of to lay this hand down.

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Then you can't be a very good poker player.

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If I had ESP, I would lay this down. But short of that, the ratio of hands he could/should be betting that I beat far outweighs the number of hands he could/should be betting that beats me, and there is already a pot.

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Unless he spotted a set specific tell.

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And showing its the absolute worst, if anyone at the table has a heartbeat or a brain. You just announced your willingness to fold pretty much anything to aggression on a dry board.

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Au contraire, very much au contraire.

If he had spotted a tell, giving the world the impression you will fold for entirely spuriuous reasons under circumstances where you would normally not is advertising false information.

In poker, usually considered (when believable) to be 'a good thing'.

[El_Hombre_Grande]

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- THERE IS MUCH MORE TO POKER THEN PROBABILITY !!!


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Maybe. But not this hand.

Sincerely,

One of the Know It All Pricks.

PS. Maybe now that you've vented all your pent up hostility you could try articulating a position, like a reasoned analysis that would explain this "sick laydown" as something other than a negative EV play saved by dumb luck.

[Gonso]

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you could try articulating a position, like a reasoned analysis that would explain this "sick laydown" as something other than a negative EV play saved by dumb luck.

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I don't think that's coming anytime soon. We're already down to name calling and talking about ESP (lol). A lot of new posters seem to be dead set on the idea that a laydown here is world class. I guess that's a good thing, when you really think about it.

I'll try to watch out for these world class players hiding out in $60 donkaments in the meantime though. Thanks for the heads up.