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#51
07-20-2007, 01:07 PM
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Re: Harrah\'s Makes Good Floor Decision?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Just because something is easy does not make it right. How about some desire to fix an obvious problem's root cause, rather than duct taping a solution that requires _some_ amount of effort being exerted by a party that isn't responsible for doing so. [/ QUOTE ] A player is responsible for protecting their own hand from incompetent dealers who screw up. [/ QUOTE ] 
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#52
07-20-2007, 01:10 PM
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Re: Harrah\'s Makes Good Floor Decision?
[ QUOTE ]
Just because something is easy does not make it right. How about some desire to fix an obvious problem's root cause, rather than duct taping a solution that requires _some_ amount of effort being exerted by a party that isn't responsible for doing so. [/ QUOTE ] Mistakes will always happen. There is nothing that will always make it right. The idea is for each player to protect their own chips, their own hand and their own action. It brings certainty that will not be there if you leave your fate in the hands of another person. Even the most attentive professional dealers will make an occassional mistake (but likely not the one made in this thread). Protecting your hand until the pot is awarded is easy AND right AND the fix to the problem. Best of all worlds.
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#53
07-20-2007, 01:12 PM
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Re: Harrah\'s Makes Good Floor Decision?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Just because something is easy does not make it right. How about some desire to fix an obvious problem's root cause, rather than duct taping a solution that requires _some_ amount of effort being exerted by a party that isn't responsible for doing so. [/ QUOTE ] A player is responsible for protecting their own hand from incompetent dealers who screw up. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] Or from the drunk guy next to him that decides to help the dealer or from the draft from the AC.
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#54
07-20-2007, 01:16 PM
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Re: Harrah\'s Makes Good Floor Decision?
[ QUOTE ]
Protecting your hand until the pot is awarded is easy AND right AND the fix to the problem. [/ QUOTE ] That is incorrect. The way to fix a problem of someone doing something wrong is NOT to find a way to reduce the amount of damage they can do. This is unbelievably wrongheaded logic. I do not deny that acting in a way to reduce the impact of negligence on your life is a good idea, or the right thing to do. But it's patently absurd that the onus of stopping someone from making a blatant mistake falls on the person suffering from the mistake. The bigger problem is that if live poker can't stop such terrible mistakes from being made, why should I put my money at risk playing there when there are other options available? It is in the best interest of the game of poker to FIX these problems, not by shifting the responsibility from the mistake makers to the mistake victims. See the other thread about the guy having his opponent verbally call a $1200 all-in bet on the river, seeing he lost, then simply leaving the room. Consensus is that the casino can do nothing to stop him from leaving, same as the consensus here is that it is the player's responsibility to cover for house mistakes. This seems bad. Very bad.
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#55
07-20-2007, 01:16 PM
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Re: Harrah\'s Makes Good Floor Decision?
I hear these stories about how vital is it to protect your hand, but in my experience its extremely rare for a dealer to muck a hand that hasn't been pushed in at least a little. I've only seen it once over thousands of hours of B&M play. Personally, I never cap my cards for the same reason I don't spend my day dodging lightning strikes. Player does not deserve a KITN until he lets the other guy stack half the pot before saying anything.
I suspect the obsession with capping cards originated from when people would take shots by flinging their cards into your cards to kill your hand. Fortunately, I don't play with douchebags like that.
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#56
07-20-2007, 01:17 PM
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Re: Harrah\'s Makes Good Floor Decision?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Just because something is easy does not make it right. How about some desire to fix an obvious problem's root cause, rather than duct taping a solution that requires _some_ amount of effort being exerted by a party that isn't responsible for doing so. [/ QUOTE ] A player is responsible for protecting their own hand from incompetent dealers who screw up. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] Or from the drunk guy next to him that decides to help the dealer or from the draft from the AC. [/ QUOTE ] This thread and several others have dealt with the dealer grabbing and mucking cards. Not drunks. Not the draft. The dealer. A drunk is drunk. The AC draft does not have a brain. What is the excuse for the dealer?
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#57
07-20-2007, 01:22 PM
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Re: Harrah\'s Makes Good Floor Decision?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Just because something is easy does not make it right. How about some desire to fix an obvious problem's root cause, rather than duct taping a solution that requires _some_ amount of effort being exerted by a party that isn't responsible for doing so. [/ QUOTE ] A player is responsible for protecting their own hand from incompetent dealers who screw up. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] Or from the drunk guy next to him that decides to help the dealer or from the draft from the AC. [/ QUOTE ] This thread and several others have dealt with the dealer grabbing and mucking cards. Not drunks. Not the draft. The dealer. A drunk is drunk. The AC draft does not have a brain. What is the excuse for the dealer? [/ QUOTE ] I think most repetitive jobs have an acceptable error rate. A full time dealer will deal roughly 78k hands a year. If they make a mistake once every 50k times they deal a hand that is still more than once a year.
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#58
07-20-2007, 01:26 PM
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Re: Harrah\'s Makes Good Floor Decision?
That's not a lot of mistakes, and certainly some are more aggregious than others. I'd be surprised though if the average dealer only makes one error a year, from my experience.
But whatever, that's not the point. The question I'm posing is that because these errors are rare, and because repetitive jobs have an acceptable error rate, is the answer that IF you are the victim of an error by the dealer, you should be blamed for not taking a pre-emptive strike to reduce your exposure to them.
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#60
07-20-2007, 01:35 PM
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Re: Harrah\'s Makes Good Floor Decision?
[ QUOTE ]
That's not a lot of mistakes, and certainly some are more aggregious than others. I'd be surprised though if the average dealer only makes one error a year, from my experience. But whatever, that's not the point. The question I'm posing is that because these errors are rare, and because repetitive jobs have an acceptable error rate, is the answer that IF you are the victim of an error by the dealer, you should be blamed for not taking a pre-emptive strike to reduce your exposure to them. [/ QUOTE ] This is easy you give up some utility protecting your hand (although most poker players I know don't have a problem protecting their hand). If the amount of utility you gain from not protecting your hand outweighs what you lose when the dealer mucks your hand in error, don't protect your hand. If you what you lose from losing the pot outweighs what you give up protecting your hand than protect your hand.
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