David Singer

[FireStorm]

1) As usual, a huge debate over a rule in poker which has less than zero relevance to who the better player is, who deserves to win, and who should win. Touching a cellphone, just like the moronic four letter word rule, does nothing to alter the actual play of hands. Perhaps just once in professional poker, skill should be the determining factor in winning and losing. Touching a cellphone has no bearing on this hand, stop angle shooting and move on. Poker makes up asinine rules for televised tourneys in order to make it appear more like a "real" sport. Problem is, none of these rules mean anything. There is a reason pass interference exists in football or the infield fly rule in baseball, they can drastically change the outcomes of plays and entire games. Stick rules like this in the muck. Honestly, no one with a brain can possibly think that more than 1 in 100 instances, cell phone use is connected to collusion etc.

2) Pretend for one minute that Singer is allowed back into the event. He goes on to win, or place deep, or make it into the money and eliminate players in the process. How absurd would this be? For all intents and purposes, the ME is a circus as it is. Should it become more of one b/c someone exploited a dumb rule to get a free rebuy after losing what is essentially a coinflip? Do this, and every John Q Public who loses with 99 to AJs will be looking for a way back in.

[shaniac]

I agree that the design of the cellphone rule was vague and ridiculous, but, the way it was presented, even touching one's phone during the action of a hand (after the dealer deals the first card and thereafter) was supposed to kill your hand. So, it is not at all unreasonable for Singer to expect to see the rule enforced here in the same way.

Fwiw, there were many hands during WSOP events where my opponents picked up their phones during hands against me, and their hands should have been declared dead but the dealers didn't notice or didn't care. Every time, I just let it slide, maybe sometimes offering a friendly warning after the fact. I would have done this in the ME, too, even in Singer's situation, because I hate being the one to enforce rules that I don't agree with in the first place. But, again, the fault doesn't lie with Singer for trying to see the rule observed, but with Harrah's and the way they administer the tournament and its rules.

I bet if Curtains asked four different floor people if he was allowed to merely turn off his phone during the hand, he'd get at least two different answers. Add dealer subjectivity into the equation, and there is no way a halfway-conceived cellphone restriction is going to work effectively.

[Admo]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree that the design of the cellphone rule was vague I agree that the design of the cellphone rule was vague and ridiculous, but, the way it was presented, even touching one's phone during the action of a hand (after the dealer deals the first card and thereafter) was supposed to kill your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. Though this is not the way the rule is written, it is what they announced before the start of each event. (well, at least they did before each of the four I played in)

From first card to dealt to pot being pushed: touch your phone and your hand is dead.

[FireStorm]

All the more reason to not have the rule to begin with. If it rarely (or never) alters actual play of the hand, and can't be enforced effectively and consistently, put the idea in the paper shredder from the get go. Then, in the aforementioned hand, the guy with KJ calls, which I'm sure he would have anyway, and life goes on without threads like this discussing someone angle shooting.

[CaptHomer]

All the the guy did was turn the phone off. Singer is a cry baby. He complained all the time on The Circuit. He was horrible on the show. Glad he is out.

[shaniac]

[ QUOTE ]
All the more reason to not have the rule to begin with. If it rarely (or never) alters actual play of the hand, and can't be enforced effectively and consistently, put the idea in the paper shredder from the get go. Then, in the aforementioned hand, the guy with KJ calls, which I'm sure he would have anyway, and life goes on without threads like this discussing someone angle shooting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree with this...and you hint at why rules designed to prevent cheating by using electronic devices are only going to become more problematic.

I think it will come down to a rule that bars all electronic use at the table (shudder to think) or a lifting of the cellphone restriction entirely, which will mean 5 people on average will be texting or taking calls at each table, which also sucks.

[mondo]

Simple rule; phones on vibrate or off only; no phones on table. Touch/use phone only after stepping away from table w/out a hand in play. If you're worried it's an emergency, muck your hand. If you can't/won't muck, complete the hand, step away from the table to see who called.

Harrah's sure seems to have a lot of problems running this event.

Just my .02

[shaniac]

[ QUOTE ]
Simple rule; phones on vibrate or off only; no phones on table. Touch/use phone only after stepping away from table w/out a hand in play. If you're worried it's an emergency, muck your hand. If you can't/won't muck, complete the hand, step away from the table to see who called.


[/ QUOTE ]

Right, that was my exact understanding of the rule based on four weeks and 13 events played at the WSOP. (btw Admo, Nicksdad and the other person I lost prop bets to, I haven't forgotten).

I was even afraid to reach into my pocket and silence my (vibrating) ringer when I was in a hand, for fear it would be interpreted as hand-killable cellphone use. In any case, it seems there was more room for interpretation during big hands in the main event, and that is the real issue, and that isn't Singer's doing.

[jacksquat]

i remember a circuit event in tunica where they announced before the start of play, that any tableing/playing with/operating/looking at your phone during play would kill your hand.

seemed pretty straight forward to me....turn it off or leave it in your pocket. i suppose that puts alot of responsibilty on the dealers, but like i said seemed fairly obvious as to what the rule was.

i don't remember any such annoucements at the actual wsop.

[sketchy1]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it will come down to a rule that bars all electronic use at the table (shudder to think) or a lifting of the cellphone restriction entirely, which will mean 5 people on average will be texting or taking calls at each table, which also sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

online poker > live poker