Bellagio 10/20 Hand Against TV Dude (No, not wrong forum)

[ikestoys]

[ QUOTE ]
ike,

its not standard. it obviously is a variation play that requires a certain set of circumstances.

of course, the profitablilty of the play come from taking down a large pot preflop/flop with rags when everyone puts you on AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, just lol, i'm out of this thread

[Poker_is_Hard]

[ QUOTE ]
ike,

its not standard. it obviously is a variation play that requires a certain set of circumstances.

of course, the profitablilty of the play come from taking down a large pot preflop/flop with rags when everyone puts you on AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I make this move every now and then in Full Ring as well.

Say you limp in early with 66, a NIT makes a standard raise in late, BB calls... you repop and they both fold, or one calls to set mine your AA and you win a bigger pot with a standard cont bet. Pretty standard, really don't see the fault is using this play????

[Kermit]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ike,

its not standard. it obviously is a variation play that requires a certain set of circumstances.

of course, the profitablilty of the play come from taking down a large pot preflop/flop with rags when everyone puts you on AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, just lol, i'm out of this thread

[/ QUOTE ]

lol all you want.

i have spoke with with a few nosebleed guys that makes this play occasionally and i have found it to be profitable as well.

of course, limp reraising hands other than AA is not the focus of this thread. however, i think many of the replies in this thread demonstrate the plays effectiveness when used properly and with the correct frequency.

kerm

[VPIP100]

If villain is good, why wouldnt we lay down aces post flop?

You know that he sees you as solid TAG.
He knows that you know he will try to rep trips.
He probably also knows, given his image, you wouldnt lay down QQ+ on this flop ever.

Unless he open shoved flops with total air vs donks he had no FE, I might lay them down.

But I probably wouldnt.

[Worm75]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
we have 123bbs at the flop and AA.

don't fold. bet the flop. c/r flop, do whatever you want.

[/ QUOTE ]


We already limp/raise = check/raise. You don't want to do that twice

[/ QUOTE ]


erm no. dan bright quadfecta ftw

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously the OWTG

[Ben86]

due to the action i think he knows what you have and that you are a thinking player capable of a big laydown and that is why i would not fold. He also knows you know he will play any two to try and bust you because he knows what you have.

[Worm75]

PF is meh.....can see the benefits if it is used with other hands/plus hero has apparently done it before.....

At this point have a hard time laying down this hand with what we have invested in the pot....Pot the flop and plan on getting it in on the turn.

[Sunny Mehta]

In accordance with my limp-reraise thoughts above, I believe many players understand certain no-limit concepts intuitively, but not necessarily explicitly. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

This hand isn't really all that complicated or exciting or tough, and most people generally agreed on the same answer that they wouldn't fold. OK great, problem solved, right? Hmm. Most of you also didn't give much of a detailed response as to how you arrived at that answer. If we make my hand pocket jacks instead of aces, will the answers be as unanimous? How will you arrive at your answer? Will we all have a common way of thinking about how to arrive at an answer?

A few mentioned exact stack sizes in terms of BB, some mentioned the percentage of stack put in preflop - I certainly like those lines of thinking.

Does it matter how many total BB we are willing to put in, or does it matter more what percentage is left relative to the pot?

Does it matter how big numerically a certain percentage of our stack is preflop? I.e. - is 10 percent of a 100bb stack the same as 10 percent of a 250bb stack?

This hand is about the concept of commitment - the idea of when and how you're willing to put your whole stack in. You'll note that on the flop we're talking about making a decision about whether we're willing to get all-in in the hand no matter what happens on the turn/river. It's easy to see with this particular hand why we might make such a decision - we have the best overpair on a paired board in a reraised pot and we're either way ahead or way behind. But if we change some of the parameters - our hand, the flop cards, the reraised pot - is it so obvious?

I'm specifically referring to the concept of "planning your hands around commitment" and having some kind of explicit idea of how to do it. That topic is a big focus of my upcoming book with Matt and Ed. I mean planning hands from beginning to end right from the time you get your cards - deciding preflop how you will make money by playing your hand, what possible scenarios you will commit in, what scenarios you will bluff in, etc.

I think these ideas are going to help players immensely, and as I said, I believe that many players (and there are some great players on this forum) already think about them intuitively. I believe Mason is going to publish an excerpt in July's 2p2 Internet Magazine. Check it out. Matt and I both are going to try and spend more time in this forum now that publication date is so near (July 20th).

[ReptileHouse]

I don't hate pre-flop since it's a live full ring game with a maniac on your left. I'm not hugely fond of it, but I don't absolutely hate it.

I can see myself getting away from the hand in a few exceptional situations. If we somehow get to the river with lots of money still behind (unlikely) and the river brings a 4flush or 4straight. Even then, I'd think hard about it.

Unless something really strange happens, I'm looking to get it all in here. The question is how to most effectively do that. That's going to depend totally on his tendencies in re-raised pots. How likely is he to float? Value bet a worse hand if shown weakness? Is he more likely to call off chips or bluff them off (or VB a worse hand)? IOW, are we more likely to get value by showing aggression or weakness?

From the description given so far, I really, really like a stackadonk here. Bet flop, CRAI turn. Alternatively, depending on how bluffy/spewy he's being on the turn and river, b/c c/c c/c could also be an effective line.

edit: bah. cross-post.

[cbloom]

coltrane, I think you are severely underestimating the level at which good SSNL players are thinking these days.

edit : in particular, things like stacks behind to pot size ratios are such a basic concept that we rarely even mention it.