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#51
05-24-2007, 10:48 AM
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Re: OK, so
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Also, in my experience, PhD economists are not in particularly high demand. [/ QUOTE ] If he chooses a thesis based on a specific real-world application, I would be shocked if he did not find himself in high demand. [/ QUOTE ] What "real world" application would be attractive and plausible as an economics dissertation? I've worked with about two dozen PhDs in the last 10 years. Several have worked for me. We've always hired people who we've felt were the brightest even if their fields (and dissertations) were unrelated their job duties (and this includes a Molecular Biologist PhD, pure math PhDs, and several physics PhDs while passing over many economics PhDs for jobs in quantitative finance). Off the top of my head I can't think of a single private sector job that requires a PhD. A Masters is very useful at demonstrating intelligence, specialization etc, but a PhD is overkill. In fact, often, it suggests to potential employers things that you don't want to convey. 
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#52
05-24-2007, 10:48 AM
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Re: OK, so
OP too long.
Cliffnotes?
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#53
05-24-2007, 11:11 AM
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Re: OK, so
A few random points:
1. Hyde Park is brutal, but you don't have to live there. It's easy enough to live somewhere north and commute. 2. It's very easy to drop out of the program once you've started, but it's not clear that you have the ability to undo a decision to not start the program. 3. If you're not really into the idea, you could be absolutely miserable, especially during the first year or two. You'll likely have very little control over the courses you take and those courses may seem completely unrelated to what you think you'll eventually want to do. 4. I don't think SL is representative of the econ department at UC. 5. In academia, Econ PhD's don't face an exceptionally easy job market, but I don't think it's horrible, either. One thing that's helpful is that econ PhD's usually have the ability to go on the market for business schools, either in B-school econ departments, finance, or accounting. I believe that both finance and accounting are better job markets in academia than econ. Accounting by a million miles. Pay is better in B-schools as well. 6. You will need a ton of drive to complete the program, even the first year of the program. There likely won't be anyone watching over you to make sure you do the work you're supposed to be doing, so it will be very easy to attend classes, do the bare minimum in your assignments, goof off for most of the first year, then find you've failed out by the end of the first or second year. 7. As others have mentioned, no decision you make right now will lock you into the next 40 years of life. Having an econ PhD from Chicago will provide you with far more options than what you have right now. Even if the PhD provides you with absolutely no "practical" skills, it will separate you from others when applying for jobs or raising money. 8. I think you should start the program with an attitude of "I'm going to give my best effort, but this is isn't necessarily a lifelong commitment to academia if I don't want it to be." I just can't imagine the possible future regret of saying, "Jesus, 20 years ago I had a chance to get a PhD from UC, but didn't..."
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#54
05-24-2007, 11:25 AM
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Re: OK, so
[ QUOTE ]
Off the top of my head I can't think of a single private sector job that requires a PhD. [/ QUOTE ] Do you mean an economics Ph.D, or any at all? I could imagine that it might be helpful for certain kinds of R&D positions, depending on what your degree is in. I'm hoping so, anyway, since that's probably my current plan at the moment, but I've got probably another year and a half to chew on things. [ QUOTE ] A Masters is very useful at demonstrating intelligence, specialization etc, but a PhD is overkill. In fact, often, it suggests to potential employers things that you don't want to convey. [/ QUOTE ] Since it sounds like you have some experience hiring Ph.D's, what message do you feel it conveys to you?
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#55
05-24-2007, 11:32 AM
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Re: OK, so
[ QUOTE ]
OP too long. Cliffnotes? [/ QUOTE ] OP is Will Hunting.
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#56
05-24-2007, 11:37 AM
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Re: OK, so
[ QUOTE ]
Also, in my experience, PhD economists are not in particularly high demand. [/ QUOTE ] PhD economists coming out of a top program like chicago will have no problem finding a high-paying nonacademic job. There are lots of options, and most of them don't involve finance.
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#57
05-24-2007, 11:38 AM
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Re: OK, so
[ QUOTE ]
Since it sounds like you have some experience hiring Ph.D's, what message do you feel it conveys to you? [/ QUOTE ] I'm sure Dave will chime in with his thoughts, but Barbara Ehrenreich explores the "stench of academia" in "Bait and Switch: The (Futile) Pursuit of the American Dream," a really cool (if a bit depressing) book about white-collar job seekers and the pitfalls they face.
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#58
05-24-2007, 11:47 AM
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Re: OK, so
Such a brilliant and creative mind with a thread title "Ok, so". Hmmm...
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#59
05-24-2007, 11:48 AM
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Re: OK, so
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Also, in my experience, PhD economists are not in particularly high demand. [/ QUOTE ] If he chooses a thesis based on a specific real-world application, I would be shocked if he did not find himself in high demand. [/ QUOTE ] What "real world" application would be attractive and plausible as an economics dissertation? I've worked with about two dozen PhDs in the last 10 years. Several have worked for me. We've always hired people who we've felt were the brightest even if their fields (and dissertations) were unrelated their job duties (and this includes a Molecular Biologist PhD, pure math PhDs, and several physics PhDs while passing over many economics PhDs for jobs in quantitative finance). Off the top of my head I can't think of a single private sector job that requires a PhD. A Masters is very useful at demonstrating intelligence, specialization etc, but a PhD is overkill. In fact, often, it suggests to potential employers things that you don't want to convey. [/ QUOTE ] I agree that the private sector jobs that require PhDs are probably not in your world, so much.
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#60
05-24-2007, 11:58 AM
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Re: OK, so
[ QUOTE ]
Off the top of my head I can't think of a single private sector job that requires a PhD. A Masters is very useful at demonstrating intelligence, specialization etc, but a PhD is overkill. In fact, often, it suggests to potential employers things that you don't want to convey. [/ QUOTE ] It's interesting that this is true in non-science fields, because the exact opposite is true in most science related fields. A MA or MS is essentially no better than a BA or BS, and a PhD is pretty much an absolute requirement for most higher level positions. I had no idea the opposite was the case in the sectors DaveR is talking about.
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