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#51
05-04-2007, 11:21 PM
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Re: A Sad Anniversary
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Where the hell do you get off saying..... "these worthless students"? Opinions are like arseholes.....Everyone has one.... ...and your picture is in the dictionary next to the listing. [/ QUOTE ] Anyone who initiates and participates in violence against innocent national guard members, local businesses and members of the public is a pretty worthless human being. Why is everyone getting up in arms about the shooting, and no one gives a crap about the violence of these students? [/ QUOTE ] Whoa. which students? Are you suggesting that the studnets that were shot are 100% the students who were rampaging? Or are you suggesting that the actions of some members of a particular group open the entire group up to violent reprisal? Two white men killed my friend, so I'm going out to kill the first two white people I see! Why is everyone up and arms about this, and no one gives a crap about the violence of these white people!?!? The white people are to blame for me shooting them, since white people started the violence! [/ QUOTE ] Woah, pvn, I agree with you. wtf? 
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#52
05-05-2007, 12:29 AM
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Re: A Sad Anniversary
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Where the hell do you get off saying..... "these worthless students"? Opinions are like arseholes.....Everyone has one.... ...and your picture is in the dictionary next to the listing. [/ QUOTE ] Anyone who initiates and participates in violence against innocent national guard members, local businesses and members of the public is a pretty worthless human being. Why is everyone getting up in arms about the shooting, and no one gives a crap about the violence of these students? [/ QUOTE ] Whoa. which students? Are you suggesting that the studnets that were shot are 100% the students who were rampaging? Or are you suggesting that the actions of some members of a particular group open the entire group up to violent reprisal? Two white men killed my friend, so I'm going out to kill the first two white people I see! Why is everyone up and arms about this, and no one gives a crap about the violence of these white people!?!? The white people are to blame for me shooting them, since white people started the violence! [/ QUOTE ] Woah, pvn, I agree with you. wtf? [/ QUOTE ] Make note of this tactic. You see it all the time. Person A and person B perform action X, which causes result Y. Person C and person D complain about Y. Person E comes along, constructs some group Z such that A, B, C, and D are all members, then says, "look! group Zers wanted X, and then they complained about what happened when they got it! What a bunch of hypocrites!!!" You see it all the time. Just look for it. People are too lazy to seperate individuals from groups.
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#53
05-05-2007, 02:31 AM
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Re: A Sad Anniversary
pvn,
Your whole simplistic argument was founded on a misunderstanding of another person's point. That's what you often call a straw man when you see others do it. BTW, I agree with your statement too. It's bleedingly obvious, garden variety morality that most people ascribe to, so of course everyone's going to agree with it. But in no way relevant to the debate. The laziness is all yours. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#54
05-05-2007, 09:53 AM
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Re: A Sad Anniversary
[ QUOTE ]
pvn, Your whole simplistic argument was founded on a misunderstanding of another person's point. [/ QUOTE ] When you blamed "the students" for getting shot? What did I misunderstand there? [ QUOTE ] Anyone who initiates and participates in violence against innocent national guard members, local businesses and members of the public is a pretty worthless human being. Why is everyone getting up in arms about the shooting, and no one gives a crap about the violence of these students? I'd like to hear some decent arguments that this was a deliberate act to quell the protests, because the objective evidence doesn't seem to support that case. And if it was truly an accident, then the students are much to blame for the four deaths as the government. I daresay more so. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The laziness is all yours. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, my laziness caused you to think and write sloppily. Get real.
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#56
05-05-2007, 01:27 PM
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Re: A Sad Anniversary
[ QUOTE ]
I thought Phil's argument was crystal clear all along. NCAces [/ QUOTE ] Clarity is anathema to some posters. They are easily identified when 80% of the threads they participate in turn into semantic arguments, circular reasoning and claims that their world view is the only frame of reference that is allowed in a discussion.
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#57
05-06-2007, 03:30 AM
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Re: A Sad Anniversary
If you take all the political motive's out of EVERYONE'S argument then it can be said that yes..... it was a sad anniversary
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#59
05-06-2007, 12:23 PM
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Re: A Sad Anniversary
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I thought Phil's argument was crystal clear all along. NCAces [/ QUOTE ] Please help out us 'unclear' thinkers then. Elaborate on the clarity that you see present in his argument. [/ QUOTE ] You are smart enought to understand what he is saying, whether you agree or not. Now you are just being obtuse. That said, it was clear to me that his post, in response to the kneejerk raction of many here that it was the governments/national guards fault, was to more properly apportion blame as follows: When people violate the law by rioting, looting, assaulting officers of the law, a reasonable expectation is that people are very likely to get hurt. It might be those who are violating the law, it might be those that are trying to uphold the law, and it might even be unfortunate bystanders (as happened at Kent State). As to those who were bystanders, it is obviously a tragedy, but one that should be blamed on the rioting, looters, not necessarily those who were charged with upholding the law, except to the extent that it can be shown that they acted negligently, which evidently wasn't ever shown. But, then again, you already knew that. NCAces
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#60
05-06-2007, 12:29 PM
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Re: A Sad Anniversary
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I thought Phil's argument was crystal clear all along. NCAces [/ QUOTE ] Please help out us 'unclear' thinkers then. Elaborate on the clarity that you see present in his argument. [/ QUOTE ] You are smart enought to understand what he is saying, whether you agree or not. Now you are just being obtuse. That said, it was clear to me that his post, in response to the kneejerk raction of many here that it was the governments/national guards fault, was to more properly apportion blame as follows: When people violate the law by rioting, looting, assaulting officers of the law, a reasonable expectation is that people are very likely to get hurt. It might be those who are violating the law, it might be those that are trying to uphold the law, and it might even be unfortunate bystanders (as happened at Kent State). As to those who were bystanders, it is obviously a tragedy, but one that should be blamed on the rioting, looters, not necessarily those who were charged with upholding the law, except to the extent that it can be shown that they acted negligently, which evidently wasn't ever shown. But, then again, you already knew that. NCAces [/ QUOTE ] What does any of that crystal clear thinking have to do with the reality of National Guardsman firing on a group of students peacfully gathering in an open field on their college campus?
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