What makes someone Upper rather than Middle class?

[DirtyDiggs]

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If you totally disregard personal debt, that might make sense. No, actually it still wouldn't make sense.

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however if you are suggesting that someone who is in debt because of their purchasing decisions can be knocked down a class then i disagree.ie, owning a really big house, nice cars, and a boat rather than having a more modest lifestyle is not cause to be dropped down a class because you leveraged yourself in the process of attaining that lifestyle.

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From a sociological perspective, this is almost exactly what defines class. i.e. Taking your kids to Disney World 5 times by the time they are 14 and buying them a car on their 16th birthday, but telling them they have go to Community College becaue you can't afford University. Continuing to live in a neighborhood with high crime rates and little greenspace because your two 50,000 SUVs consume a large portion of your discretionary income and leave you with little savings.

There are issues of tastes also involved in the academic definition, but the choice allocation of your wealth and income is the most relevant factor.

[mason55]

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I'm just gonna throw this out there without too much thought, but might it be fair to say that at this point in America, famous people are the new upper class? That is, fame (even cheesy reality-show fame) allows the famous a certain access and privelege that even wealthy people don't typically have. The latest goober kicked off The Amazing Race probably has a much better shot at front-of-the-line VIP treatment than someone earning 200K a year. This sort of access-enabling status seems similar to the British idea of upper-classness, i.e. the bohemian fruitcake Duchess on a stipend that can still get in the Posh Hunt Club that keeps out Tony Blair, or whoever. I dunno, just thinking out loud...

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Getting to the front of the line at Spider Club doesn't mean you're upper class.

Too many people here are confusing money, popularity, and class. The true upper class is going to look down on the latest goober from Amazing Race. The American people don't look up to the upper class because

#1) most of them don't aspire to be true upper class and
#2) most of them will never see true upper class

The upper class isn't out there flaunting their new Bentley on 22's. Neither fame nor money make you upper class. It's a way of life and a style of thinking that you grow up with and it's very difficult to change.


Edit: I grew up in a very rich area of Columbus OH. There's a very exclusive country club there. Dave Thomas (of Wendy's) wasn't allowed to join. He was rich and famous but they didn't want him, and it all had to do with class. Same with a guy named Les Wexner (owns Limited, Victoria's Secret, Bath and Body Works, etc). Hugely rich, influential businessman, not allowed to join because of class (also rumors that he wasn't allowed to join because he's Jewish).

[gumpzilla]

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I just wondered how this kind of thing works out in America. What's the distinction between being upper middle and upper clasS?

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A patrician nose, erect carriage, and a well-turned calf.

[fluffpop62]

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The true upper class is going to look down on the latest goober from Amazing Race.

The upper class isn't out there flaunting their new Bentley on 22's. Neither fame nor money make you upper class. It's a way of life and a style of thinking that you grow up with and it's very difficult to change.


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QFT. It's difficult to become upper class if you are nouveau riche. You won't be accepted because you aren't from old money, and your only chance is probably if you are a woman intent on marrying "up". From what I've learned, upper class is more about wearing your Ralph Lauren polo's until they've gone from brand new to Nantucket Red, summering at the Cape and generally being very subtle and tasteful about your money, not flashing it in the form of H2's for your kids.

The more that I think about it, the more that I realize how difficult it is to define. Even by my definition, the people that I went to high school with were upper class. They belonged to the right country clubs, they went to the right primary schools, their families were established in the area, and they dressed like they came right out of a J. Crew catalog...but they went to the same high school I did, and I don't consider my family upper class.

[DavidC]

repost in lounge. good post though

[Schwatt]

I like to think of the movie Caddyshack when discussing this topic. Separating the classes into sub-classes makes it easier for some to understand.

i.e. upper-middle class, middle-middle class, lower-middle class, etc

Everyone would agree Oprah is upper-upper class, and the guy on the park bench is lower-lower class but where do you personally draw the lines in between?

[LonesomeFugitive]

upper class = six figure income
middle class = 50kish??

[graydot]

Wealth != Income. You can be upper class and rich and make $0 a year. That said, most theorist connect class with wealth and not income.

from what I gathered from my SOC class, there is no real definition but a few prospectives depending on from which socialogical viewpoint you have

K. Marx didnt even think middle class existed, but just upper and lower (includes middle), with the upper class owning the means of production, and the lower providing the labour.

[john voight]

upper class: ppl who look loaded
middle class: ppl who don't look as loaded.

you can easily be worth 10x more than an upper class person if you manage your money well. Many upper class ppl are not worth that much b/c they piss their money off on liabilities.

[Max Raker]

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The true upper class is going to look down on the latest goober from Amazing Race.

The upper class isn't out there flaunting their new Bentley on 22's. Neither fame nor money make you upper class. It's a way of life and a style of thinking that you grow up with and it's very difficult to change.


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QFT. It's difficult to become upper class if you are nouveau riche. You won't be accepted because you aren't from old money, and your only chance is probably if you are a woman intent on marrying "up". From what I've learned, upper class is more about wearing your Ralph Lauren polo's until they've gone from brand new to Nantucket Red, summering at the Cape and generally being very subtle and tasteful about your money, not flashing it in the form of H2's for your kids.

The more that I think about it, the more that I realize how difficult it is to define. Even by my definition, the people that I went to high school with were upper class. They belonged to the right country clubs, they went to the right primary schools, their families were established in the area, and they dressed like they came right out of a J. Crew catalog...but they went to the same high school I did, and I don't consider my family upper class.

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Do you live in the great gatsby? I think the upper class in the US might be very different based on where your are. In the two places where I have known people who I thought where upper class (NY and Texas) they where nothing like the people you talked about.