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#51
04-30-2007, 11:18 AM
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RESULTS
[ QUOTE ]
Also, the arguments about "rational" opponents is bad. How often are people rational? Ranges change dramatically based on the situation, and opponents make mistakes that look irrational all the time. This is like all the economists that say market participants are rational... As for the hand, I like a river bet here for the 2-way aspect of it - and it makes you tough to play. I like the term pressure bet as well. [/ QUOTE ] It would have been a bluff. He had 99 and river went chk chk. Great discussion, thanks to all for their comments. dlpnyc21 
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#52
04-30-2007, 11:42 AM
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Re: RESULTS
After some thought, I feel like a 2 way bet is possible, but maybe only when playing live or when you otherwise have a really strong read, and against opponents who aren't too tricky.
It can happen when your opponent calls your bet on the flop and you have a strong read that he either made his standard call with a mid-high range or a hero call with bottom pair. You then know from his standard range tendencies and his hero-call tendencies that he'll he'll fold most of his hands to a lot of heat, but you know that the few times he decided to start the hand with a hero call, he tells himself he is commited to follwing it through. This makes betting middle pair strongly profitable against the whole range. Admittedly a very unusual/rare situation though.
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#53
04-30-2007, 01:32 PM
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Re: good time for a combo bet v. a TAG? or do those bets not exist....
[ QUOTE ]
As for the hand, I like a river bet here for the 2-way aspect of it - and it makes you tough to play. I like the term pressure bet as well. [/ QUOTE ] it makes you tough to play in the same way a complete beginner is tough to play. you cant make any sense of anything they do, because there is no coherent thought behind it. a beginner playing for his very first time raises, you call with AJ. flop J72r, he checks, you bet, he c/r allin. hes a complete beginner remember, so this could be AA for value, could be KJ/QJ/JT for value, could be 98 for semibluff, could be AK for bluff. all of a sudden, the times hes done this with his overpairs or jacks, its a "2-way" bet becuase sometimes you fold better and sometimes you call worse. hes mistakenly stumbled into a 2-way bet simply because he has no clue about hand ranges or what hes doing. likewise with this 2-way bet, you have no clue where youre at so you just bet, to put him to a decision instead of you. "pressure bet" is the better description of it.
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#55
04-30-2007, 02:04 PM
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Re: good time for a combo bet v. a TAG? or do those bets not exist....
All,
Cliff notes: Some people like to call a certain type of thin bet a combo bet, others like to call it a 2-way bet, and others like to call it a pressure bet.
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#56
04-30-2007, 02:07 PM
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Re: good time for a combo bet v. a TAG? or do those bets not exist....
[ QUOTE ]
All, Cliff notes: Some people like to call a certain type of thin bet a combo bet, others like to call it a 2-way bet, and others like to call it a pressure bet. [/ QUOTE ] don't forget my very own "value bluff"
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#57
04-30-2007, 02:59 PM
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Re: good time for a combo bet v. a TAG? or do those bets not exist....
[ QUOTE ]
All, Cliff notes: Some people like to call a certain type of thin bet a combo bet, others like to call it a 2-way bet, and others like to call it a pressure bet. [/ QUOTE ] no, its more than just semantics, depending on your intent with the bet. if you do it thinking youre "value bluffing", your intent is no better than the beginners i described above.
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#58
04-30-2007, 04:09 PM
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Re: good time for a combo bet v. a TAG? or do those bets not exist....
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] All, Cliff notes: Some people like to call a certain type of thin bet a combo bet, others like to call it a 2-way bet, and others like to call it a pressure bet. [/ QUOTE ] no, its more than just semantics, depending on your intent with the bet. if you do it thinking youre "value bluffing", your intent is no better than the beginners i described above. [/ QUOTE ] i'd love to be as good as you at estimating hand ranges. poker would be EZZZ...any tips?
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#59
04-30-2007, 04:28 PM
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Re: good time for a combo bet v. a TAG? or do those bets not exist....
whats with the holier than thou attitude? when did i claim to be the best at determining ranges?
instead of getting defensive, how about you just look at what im saying? theres nothing inherently bad or wrong with making this bet. just understand what your goal is when you make it.
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#60
04-30-2007, 07:49 PM
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Re: good time for a combo bet v. a TAG? or do those bets not exist....
Do you think the beginner is thinking "hmm, sometimes he'll fold better and sometimes he'll call w/ worse" when he's making the C/R? If he is, and he's right, is it still a donkey play?
"Sometimes he'll fold better and sometimes he'll call w/ worse" is perfectly rational reasoning. And it's not like HSNL'ers are applying this line of thought without first assigning a hand range.
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