10/20 top two vs cts, 250BB deep and 3-handed

[El Diablo]

M: "people usually act like douches against me, for once I'll return the favour" That was a pretty tame post, dude. You pretty much suck at being a dick on the Internet.

All: This is why online sucks compared to live, live you can make him "know" that he can push you off the hand so much easier. I lean towards calling here. If there were a flush draw on the flop, I like a push.

Bruiser: I like your new attitude.

[ActionJeff]

[ QUOTE ]
pretty advanced poker thinking going on here, i am learning a lot. the key to beating people is to cold call 3 bet minreraises for 30BB on the flop because that represents top set and then when we have a good hand the trick to getting all the money in is to keep minraising them until it becomes obvious to the opponent it's a bluff and he has to go all in.

actually now that i think about it i've seen that play before, let me think where that was... OH I REMEMBER, that reminds me of the tables where people buy in for $25, that's where people continuously minraise each other like douchebags. to all you kids out there, big bet nl don't do no good with minrasies u all a bunch of limit faggs to try that shitt out. go back to the school of learning to play poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol awesome

I think if u raise here, min is horrible...

[DJ Sensei]

his 3-bet is way small, and while i havent played with him in a while so i dont know if he's experimenting with those more often now or something, it means one of a few things to me:

1) He has total air, and wants to chase off your weak one-pair hands and such as cheaply as possible, because it shouldnt matter how big his 3-bet is, you can't call with Jx or A2 or something crappy. I mean you could, but you'd probably fold it.
2) he has a gutter or something concealed, and knows you'd rarely 4-bet here, so he's slowing you down and getting himself a cheap turn card for his draw. If he happens to get there, the pot is big enough that he stands a good chance of getting it all in against your 2 pair or set or whatever.
3) he has a set or 2 pair himself, and is just building up the pot slowly because he's not too concerned about draws. I think this is less likely than the other 2.


I think he's got a gutter here, for reasons that both he can maybe fold out weak one-pair hands, and you won't 4-bet much on this board so he can draw kinda cheaply. The question then becomes whether to 4-bet against his wishes, or call. I say call because you know exactly what cards he's probably looking for, and there arent too many of them. In position you can do what you will on a blank turn, whether it be call, raise, or bet when checked to. I'm not sure if you should expect him to bluff the turn very often though, so lean towards call if bet at, bet if checked to.

[MDMA]

El D,

It's a long way to Tipperary...Okay, no that wasn't very fitting. Nah, but seriously, I know. I'm just too much of a nice guy to bring in the big guns, it's not my style (yet). Given some time, however..We'll just see, won't we!

Anyway, as usual you do make a good point.

[restrikt]

I don't think we are ever calling CTS's raise on this flop with air, because that's stupid.

I think CTS is good enough to get away from a worse hand on the turn or river... so raise this.

[edge]

[ QUOTE ]
Edge, are you [censored] serious? HOW ARE YOU EVER RAISING THE FLOP WITH JT or A5, don't you get what that is what I have been saying all the time, either you have a big hand, air or in some few instances a semibluff like KQ/QT/KT. Raising JT or A5 on this flop against this player with these stacks is just hilarious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if you're going to play a weak one pair really passively you're basically giving cts a license to run you over. If I'm not comfortable messing around with my mediocre hands, I should just leave the table. I don't see how the stacks affect the original flop decision since the pot is tiny at that point.

I'd probably pack up and leave unless the third player was a huge donator anyway.

[KRANTZ]

man can we get responses in this thread from people who still actually play high stakes NL

i mean like... things people say are so unconstructive and clogging the thread. min-raise is HORRIBLE, calling is HORRIBLE. WHY ARE THEY HORRIBLE?!? WHY ARE THEY GOOD?!? Argue a [censored] point. Not everyone is guilty of this but one of the reasons this forum has been sucking is that there are a lack of posts from the actual big winners these days, the old big winners are either so far out of it or so holier than thou that they don't deign to provide reasoning for their lines, or you have some 15-50 post guy who sat in one 10/20NL game online with $1200 and now thinks he's qualified to give advice.

SO - after thinking about this a little more, I don't think call is as bad as I originally thought, namely because cts did 3-bet SO small that if nath was bluffing it's NOT so far-fetched that he'd float and see if cole shut down on the turn (since he's getting such a good price IF it's a bluff that won't follow through a fair % of the time). and i'm sure nath is at least somewhat of a capable hand reader, so i'd say the likelihood of him floating the 3-bet isn't as far from the chances 4-betting will induce a shove that i originally thought.

but i still like 4-betting because it's what i would do if i were bluffing, and against someone who thinks on 99 levels, i think it's the MOST profitable line.

although i'm wondering why no one is even considering folding at any point.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]

although i'm wondering why no one is even considering folding at any point.

[/ QUOTE ]
bc we have top two vs an aggro player who so far has taken a bluffy line and its 3handed game blind v blind etc etc etc

[bruin]

what hands do you guys actually put CTS on? It seems like a really weird line for him to take with either a monster or air...

[edge]

Way too little information to make any sort of guess on his hand range.