Kansas City: Lowest NL is 2-5, casino adding 1-2, what happens?

[coolio4433]

Thanks for the info.

If I'm lucky there will be others from this conference that will be playing as well, since many of them are horrible players (judging by their play last spring when we met in Vegas).

[Big_Ham]

1/2 NLHE with a 100 buyin is -EV in my book. Stacks are WAY too short.

I played in a game like this in San Diego ... they all think "hey, it's only $100, I call". I mean, not literally all preflop, but throughout the hand, they know all they're going to lose is $100. Instead of having 2-3 people at your table buying in short, the entire table has to buy in short - it changes the mentality of the game.

[Keys Myaths]

Played at Harrah's last night.

Table was VERY loose-passive. Surprised me, because most 1-2 games I've seen are downright maniacal at times.

[TheStation]

[ QUOTE ]
1/2 NLHE with a 100 buyin is -EV in my book. Stacks are WAY too short.

[/ QUOTE ]

With experience you will find this not to be the case, before moving to KC the only NL game I had access to was 1-2 NL with $100 min/max and I logged 100s of hours in it - it wasnt uncommon to have half of the table with $400+ and a couple with $800+ which definitely allows for a lot of play and +EV long run win rates

Short-stack poker is a skill a lot of people on 2+2 seem to write off right away and discourage, we had a $100-300 buyin 2-5 NL game here for 6 months and it was still very beatable with only a 60x BB buyin and those players were much more clueless on how to play deep and the buyin for the game made it look smaller than it really was and get worse players in there

You just had to adjust in the beginning and change as the stacks get deeper and always keep in mind who has how many chips everyone has

[TheStation]

Hadn't been out to the casino in awhile but made it out last night, they had 5 1-2 NL games and 3 2-5 NL games, I did well but I wouldnt say my game was that good, it was always 7-8 regulars + myself + 1-2 fish so it kept money coming onto the table but not one of the best spots I have ever been in

It seems that the 1-2 NL hasnt totally killed the 2-5 game but its definitely not what it used to be - still very beatable but you just need to change up how you play with the shift from crazy loose to somewhat more thinking players

[DocOtis]

Looks like this thread is fairly old, but it is definitely interesting to see all of the comments regarding this.

My name is Brian Grote and I am the poker manager of the STL and KC Harrah's poker rooms. I have spent over 10 years in poker rooms doing everything from playing to my current job. When I make decissions I keep the players in mind and that is a big reason why I have been sucessful.

The 1/2 NL game will help grow the 2/5 game over time. You can't expect new players to the room or inexperienced players to sit in a game that you really need at least a dime to feel comfortable. Over time a percentage of the 1/2 players will build confidence and bankrolls and eventually move into the 2/5 game. Years ago before N/L was popular you almost never saw a beginning player starting out at 10/20 limit game, more than likely everyone started with 3/6 or 4/8 until they were comfortable or could afford to move up. Same concept here....

Since we added the 1/2 game I think the 2/5 action in KC has still been good. I don't anticipate the 2/5 getting any weaker than it is, it should stabalize with the new group of players the lower limit game caters too.

Too many times players tend to think of what is best for the game tomorrow, instead of thinking what is best for the game a year from now. That is the strategy that provoked my decision to change the games.

The changes we have made over the last several months have been sucessful. My ultimate goal is to get the two rooms I operate in the midwest to be inline with the rest of the poker community.

Hope that made sense.....just my .02

BG

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Very interesting comments.

IMO spreading 1-2 will hurt the 2-5 games by losing some of the weaker players to the smaller game. However, the overall NL action will increase because the smaller stakes will allow more to play.

This phenomenon was seen when the mirage started spreading 1-2 in addition to 2-5. Although I don't play that much at the mirage**, the times I've been in a 2-5 game I thought the games were fairly sharky. Every 1-2 game I've played there was minnow heaven tho.

[TheStation]

Brian,
Thank you for your reply - Despite starting this thread months ago, I can say I really dont mind the 1-2 as it did get rid of most of the short stackers in the 2/5 game. The 2-5 game is also still soft but just has more regulars than it had in the past. I can say if I was in your shoes, I would have added the 1-2 game as well, there were a decent number of people unwilling to play 2-5 that would play 1-2. There are also people that would play either and it will take them longer to go broke in the 1-2 and your job is to keep them coming back to the casino to play for as long as possible.

I can say I still prefer your location in St. Louis over KC but those are for reasons which are somewhat out of your control such as a more tables and having 3 separate areas to add your name to the list, get called for a game, and get chips. I do appreciate adding the glass between the poker room and casino floor in KC in December, that was probably the best thing that could have been done.

My only question is around games you are willing to spread. I know you are thinking "I cant wait for him to ask me to spread Omaha of some variety" so here I go! I know last summer (before your time) we asked about Omaha and were turned down due to the fact there was only one dealer that could deal omaha on the night we wanted to try to get a game going and he wouldnt be able to get any breaks, is this still the case? If you do have dealers that can deal Omaha, would you be willing to spread a 1/2 or 2/5 blind HO or HOE game (H=Hold'em, O = Omaha High, E = Omaha H/L). I know 1/2 blind HO and HOE games run well in Iowa but wasnt sure if it would be worth trying out down here. I know, as always, the games spread to depend directly on player interest. Also do you have any other special game nights ouside of 5/10 NLHE on Tuesday and Thursdays at 6pm?

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Most of the time there's no other games than hold'em because that's all anyone wants to play. To turn down "other" players because the dealers can't deal is a travesty. Poker does not equal hold'em. I realize the pathetic morons think poker does equal hold'em but that's why they are morons. Holy cow hold'em is right up there when it comes to dumbing down america.

[BigBadBabar]

al, i have zero idea what that is supposed to mean