Tone and Flaming in SSNL: PLEASE READ

[JefferyLopes18]

[ QUOTE ]
I feel like most of the currently-succesful SSNL posters got thier start, and achieved much of thier success, by participating on the more civil version of SSNL. Now they are changing the forum to be hostile & unwelcoming, and I think that's selfish.

I'm not actually opposed to one-line replies like "Raise PF." You're right, sometimes things have been discussed to deathand there's just not a lot to say. But when "Fold PF" becomes "Fold PF idiot" or just "you suck at poker" or "stupid question," that's when SSNL crosses the line. That and when the OP asks for explanations as to why a standard line is a standard line and just gets responses like "well I just think you're asking stupid questions."

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto

I am part of a few poker forums and this is the only one where i see some negative responses at peoples intellect. I was a fish once, all of us were. This forum has some incredible talent and im glad to be a part and contribute, as soon as people start calling others idiots (especially moderators!) thats probably going to turn me off to loggin in to try and learn.

[einherjar]

[ QUOTE ]
mike,

You're sort of missing the point. It's not "be extra nice to Matt cuz he writes books and limon cuz he's respected," it's "stop being an a-hole to people just cuz they think differently (even if they're wrong) from you."

[/ QUOTE ]

while i think 2 certainly applies number 1 is what many of the people here seem to be focusing on mostly and that's wrong. i dont care who limon and matt are, we have a right to disagree with what they say and we don't have to take it as gospel. I'm all for the respect your elders thing but treating someone differently because they have 10k posts or a 02 reg date is retarded.

[Dan Bitel]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm all for the respect your elders thing but treating someone differently because they have 10k posts or a 02 reg date is retarded.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
einherjar
member


Reged: 01/18/07
Posts: 117
Loc: free lunchin'

[/ QUOTE ]

jealous much? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[einherjar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm all for the respect your elders thing but treating someone differently because they have 10k posts or a 02 reg date is retarded.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
einherjar
member


Reged: 01/18/07
Posts: 117
Loc: free lunchin'

[/ QUOTE ]

jealous much? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

i wish i could make a response but with your 10k posts you're just too awesome, sorry. post some strat or something, geez.

[MyTurn2Raise]

dan bitel doesn't have 10k posts yet, you noob

[einherjar]

[ QUOTE ]
dan bitel doesn't have 10k posts yet, you noob

[/ QUOTE ]

damn 10k posts! who are you again?

[img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Isura]

I think the cheese thread should go. Many of the experienced posters spend all their time their, because it is fun to mess around with your friends. And many of them think that they don't have much more to learn (to be honest, I had this same attitude in the past). It is a common theme on 2p2 that the posters that are running hot tend to post more. While the good players that are struggling tend to disappear and stop contributing (which is understandable). Having a 10k stretch at 15ptbb/100 can make anyone feel like a poker god. Bad habits and leaks can be well disguised in this time frame. But what is worse is that these players think that their advice is gospel, and come to the forum to give smart one liner answers and dismiss opposing opinions. The long run in poker is really really long. Break even players can run hot for 100k hand stretches (I've been told by some high stakes players).

So what is the criterion for a good strategy forum? Lively and respectful discussion, in-depth hand analysis, discussion of alternative approaches, and the asking of probing questions. That is how you get better. That is how you really learn to be a player. It is true that the games have changed since the US legislation. Game conditions and dynamics are quite different, especially on the non-US sites. So now more than ever, it is crucial that one really learns to think like a poker player, and learn to adapt to different types of (NL) games.

The problem that AJ points out is not unique to SSNL. The quality of MSNL has drastically gone down in the last 4 months. Many of the very good players are either posting in HSNL, or believe that the reward for posting deep analysis and thought processes is very minimal. This is understandable if you play very high stakes since there is very little game selection and everyone knows each other. But I think it is ridiculous for SSNL or MSNL. There are so many games and so many players, so that "giving away secrets" is hardly an issue.

I'm going to start making more thoughtful posts and attempt to contribute to what I think can still be a useful strategy forum. Who is with me?

p.s. Perhaps we could still have a monthly "goals" thread, and an end of month "results" thread. We could lock each one after a couple of days so that it doesn't dilute the forum for the whole month. Thoughts on this?

[ajmargarine]

Nice post Isura.

fwiw, personally, I like the [cheese] thread.

[EMc]

I love the cheese thread, but he is right, thats about all i read in SSNL now.

[einherjar]

[ QUOTE ]
Nice post Isura.

fwiw, personally, I like the [cheese] thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree but also completely disagree (how?).

I think the cheese thread is a great way to keep the (LC/NC) threads to a minimum and try to emphasize strat in the strat forum. It's also a good place to 'hang out' with SSNLers, and does a good job of making this place more of a community. If that is the only thread you read, you're hurting yourself and don't really have anyone else to blame. Like smoking- don't blame big tobacco, you're the one who decides to light up.

Now if the overall TONE of the cheese thread is negative, that's something else. But personally I like having a place to vent/brag/chill/chat/ask that is our own personal space. BBV is more or less garbage with the people there, the responses, the (obvious) preference for high stakes, the number of non poker posts/fake posts/awful posts, etc.