NH Man attempts to not pay federal taxes...

[WordWhiz]

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Wow, this guy kicks amazing amounts of ass.

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hell yes he does.

Wordwhiz, I think you're missin the point. NH man, like the people in Freedom to Fascism, is saying that taxes were not originally in the constitution but were implemented by Rockefeller and some other dudes in the early 20th century as a scheme to get rich yada yada yada. My details are sketchy but watch the documentary if you want to better understand the argument.

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Well duh. It was called the 16th amendment. The tax protesters' arguments invariably center around alleged technical or clerical errors: amendment wasn't done properly; court flies the wrong type of flag; only D.C. residents have to pay taxes; etc.

If you think taxes are wrong, I'm right there with you. But the tax protesters take another tack entirely, focusing on the technnical rather than moral argument, about which they are indisputably mistaken.

[bobman0330]

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Wow, this guy kicks amazing amounts of ass.

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hell yes he does.

Wordwhiz, I think you're missin the point. NH man, like the people in Freedom to Fascism, is saying that taxes were not originally in the constitution but were implemented by Rockefeller and some other dudes in the early 20th century as a scheme to get rich yada yada yada. My details are sketchy but watch the documentary if you want to better understand the argument.

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The technical stuff aside, here's another thing to consider. As you say, the income tax was not a part of the original Constitution. If the IT were tossed, there would be two choices: roll up the federal government and go home, or return to the original method of funding the government. I think it's fair to say that the former would not happen in the current political climate. So we're stuck with the latter, which happens to be... wait for it... huge import tariffs! Immediately before the modern income tax was imposed, there was an across the board tariff of 41% on imported goods. Your new laptop? Tack on 41%! The new pair of jeans you bought? Ring up 5% for sales tax and 41% for tariffs! Not only is that a very high and regressive tax, it's also very damaging economically. And illegal under current treaties. And harmful to the populations of our trade partners. And it would without a doubt spark a massive trade war and cause further harm at home and abroad.

[morphball]

Looks like a showdown is brewing, warrants have been issued.

Warrant for tax rebel unsealed

[bkholdem]

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The entire tax protester movement is quite bizarre. They say they don't have to pay taxes. It is clear that the executive branch, the judiciary, the I.R.S., and pretty much everyone else in the county disagree with them. Thus blatantly failing to pay taxes will result in getting hauled off to prison. Despite this, they maintain in some sense that they are correct. I can't quite grasp what they mean by this. What does "having to pay" taxes mean, except for the fact that not doing so will result in someone forcing you to do so?

It's like arguing that a flush doesn't "really" beat a straight. Oh sure, everyone else thinks it does. And the dealer will push the pot to the guy with the flush. But in some mystical, secret sense, it somehow doesn't. Whatever.

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just like the crazy blacks who thought they should not be property or the insane women who thought they should have the right to vote.

[bkholdem]

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I believe the IRS has stated that people in isolated (or heterogeneous) barter systems are liable for income tax.

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oh well if the stated it then it must be correct and moral.

[WordWhiz]

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The entire tax protester movement is quite bizarre. They say they don't have to pay taxes. It is clear that the executive branch, the judiciary, the I.R.S., and pretty much everyone else in the county disagree with them. Thus blatantly failing to pay taxes will result in getting hauled off to prison. Despite this, they maintain in some sense that they are correct. I can't quite grasp what they mean by this. What does "having to pay" taxes mean, except for the fact that not doing so will result in someone forcing you to do so?

It's like arguing that a flush doesn't "really" beat a straight. Oh sure, everyone else thinks it does. And the dealer will push the pot to the guy with the flush. But in some mystical, secret sense, it somehow doesn't. Whatever.

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just like the crazy blacks who thought they should not be property or the insane women who thought they should have the right to vote.

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Do you actually read what I write, or do you just have an auto-respond one liner for every post that you think espouses statism? Read carefully: the tax protesters are nuts because they are arguing that technical deficiencies are what makes the income tax unfair. By their logic, if we fixed these minor problems by properly ratifying the 16th amendment, changing the wording of the tax code, or flying the right flag in the court room, they'd be just fine with whatever tax the government wanted to impose. Furthermore, they claim that the best way to fight taxes is to make a giant public spectacle of it by holding conventions, making websites, and blatantly telling the government to go to hell, rather than quietly trying to slip under the radar. They then continue to argue that if they just keep using their brilliant legal arguments, eventually the govt will capitulate, even though all it's gotten them so far is a string of precedents against them, lost property, and jail time.

Oh, but they don't think they have to pay taxes, so anyone dare say a word against them and the AC patrol comes to the front.

[bills217]

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Furthermore, they claim that the best way to fight taxes is to make a giant public spectacle of it by holding conventions, making websites, and blatantly telling the government to go to hell, rather than quietly trying to slip under the radar.

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I would agree with this part, if not their asinine argument. Don't we want as much exposure for this as possible?

My dream scenario is for this guy and his wife to be brutally gunned down live on every TV station in the country (which is looking more and more possible by the day). Taxation isn't violent coercion? O RLY?

In an unrelated note, from the article:

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Brown was convicted Thursday of conspiracy to defraud the United States

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LOL. That's a good one! Oh those crazy feds!

[Copernicus]

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Huh? You're actually NOT required to have a SSN. It's "optional". You just can't be hired, open a bank account, etc. etc. without one.

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Its not optional. SS numbers are required at the age of 2 or 3 and have been for about 20 years

[bkholdem]

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The entire tax protester movement is quite bizarre. They say they don't have to pay taxes. It is clear that the executive branch, the judiciary, the I.R.S., and pretty much everyone else in the county disagree with them. Thus blatantly failing to pay taxes will result in getting hauled off to prison. Despite this, they maintain in some sense that they are correct. I can't quite grasp what they mean by this. What does "having to pay" taxes mean, except for the fact that not doing so will result in someone forcing you to do so?

It's like arguing that a flush doesn't "really" beat a straight. Oh sure, everyone else thinks it does. And the dealer will push the pot to the guy with the flush. But in some mystical, secret sense, it somehow doesn't. Whatever.

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just like the crazy blacks who thought they should not be property or the insane women who thought they should have the right to vote.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you actually read what I write, or do you just have an auto-respond one liner for every post that you think espouses statism? Read carefully: the tax protesters are nuts because they are arguing that technical deficiencies are what makes the income tax unfair. By their logic, if we fixed these minor problems by properly ratifying the 16th amendment, changing the wording of the tax code, or flying the right flag in the court room, they'd be just fine with whatever tax the government wanted to impose. Furthermore, they claim that the best way to fight taxes is to make a giant public spectacle of it by holding conventions, making websites, and blatantly telling the government to go to hell, rather than quietly trying to slip under the radar. They then continue to argue that if they just keep using their brilliant legal arguments, eventually the govt will capitulate, even though all it's gotten them so far is a string of precedents against them, lost property, and jail time.

Oh, but they don't think they have to pay taxes, so anyone dare say a word against them and the AC patrol comes to the front.

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what do you have against 'them' exactly?

[bobman0330]

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My dream scenario is for this guy and his wife to be brutally gunned down live on every TV station in the country (which is looking more and more possible by the day). Taxation isn't violent coercion? O RLY?


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Uhhhhh...