Another stupid ethics question

[jalexand42]

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I'm still waiting for Daliman's post. Everyone has said he's obviously wrong, but that hasn't stopped him before.

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This is obviously a horrible angleshoot on the order of telling someone you have the nuts to get them to fold. I'm shocked Cole.

[nostra]

If he's so eager to flip anyways, he should've just called your shove.

[DJ Sensei]

que ridiculo

[EmpireMaker2]

LOL at the fact u shoved 2, I love it

[Sean Davis]

Cole maybe you can give me your voicemail so I have someone to call when I'm ANGRY

[Phresh]

"Cole, it's me, Dali again.. I think the last 3 messages didn't go through or something. So anyway, I guess you didn't realize that the SN MiniKaroakeKing was actually, yep.. you guessed it, me. So if you could just send back my blinds, all will be well in the jungle."

[daxtrader]

You can play 12 tables on full tilt?

[8outpoker]

I cant believe the thought of you having done something wrong entered your mind. Its poker

[Daliman]

Wow. First off, I guess I'm just amazed at the fact that I would be outted like this by someone I considered a friend. I was considering making a post about it had not not responded to PM or VM tonight asking what people thought and leaving your name anonymous.

Cole and I first started talking about 4 months ago due to these boards and playing together in 10-20 and 25-50. We had more than a few IM conversations, and talked on the phone once or twice. He has even backed me up in a few of my pissing contests, which puts him in a decided minority on this board. About a week and a half ago, when I needed to swap almost 7k PS $$$ for FT $$$, I couldn't find anyone to swap with, called Cole, and even though he was in the Bahamas, he was nice and accommodating enough to do it for me. The thought that he would screw me over on the deal never even entered my mind, as many of you I'm sure have done big $$$ swap online with people you knew even less than I know Cole, and of course, I wasn't wrong; the whole transfer went off without a speck of trouble.

Anyways, last night, I was playing some 10-20 HU after my 3-6 session, and found myself down about $220. Now, of course, being a degenerate gambler who needs either a win or more definite loss, I went in search of a flipament for $250. I had done one the night before with HEK and figured maybe I could get CTS to do one with me. I sat in on his table that he was alone at, and asked him if he'd do one, but he never responded. I tried saying goofy things in chat, but he was either too busy or didn't care to respond, which is fine, but I needed my flipament. I went looking around a little more, couldn't find anything, and then figured if I sat in, when his blind posted, he'd notice chat and we'd flip. I didn't know he didn't flip, and that's fine, so I figured he'd just give my blind back if I asked and I'd be on my way, just as has happened several dozen times when I accidentally posted HU against someone either I didn't want to play, or they didn't want to play me. I have even transferred back $10 or $20 to completely unknown to me people who sat in, lost a blind to me, and left after I told them I didn't want to play before I got a chance to tell them to sit back in and I'd give them their blind back or vice versa. Maybe twice I have been screwed for my blinds by people who sat on a table I wasn't paying attention to and then left before I came back to it. I never would have guessed in a million years that cts would be so adamant about $20 and apparently think I would angle shoot him in this way. I have NEVER played him HU, I NEVER would, ( I'm not NEAR that stupid), so why he would think I was anything less than 100% on the up-and-up I have no Idea. Maybe he was having a bad session, a bad day, or whatever, I don't know, but to think that he might actually be as cutthroat to say essentially say "that's the breaks, I risked like you did, and I agreed to nothing" is completely flabbergasting.

Now, obviously, my reputation on 2+2 is all over the board, depending on the forum, personal contact, etc. But I don't think you could find a single person on 2+2 that has had any kind of financial contact with me say I have anything less than 100% integrity. This is not to say that I feel cts DOESN'T, but that I find it bothersome that it seems he thinks I would angle shoot him. Yes, it's poker, yes, it's all about the $$$, believe me, I know, but if anyone here thinks I would have done anything other than fold Aces in a blind give-back situation, then they just don't know me. This wouldn't be the first time my expectations of others were improper, and I'm sure it won't be the last, and this is obviously my own problem, as we should all be out for #1, ourselves.

Did cts do anything wrong? I guess not. But this was less about what's wrong then doing what's right, and as a friend, there is no chance I would ever do what cts did, either in the blind taking, or the even more disconcerting outing and summary opening and encouraging public ridicule. I guess I need to either lower my expectations, or just be more sure about who my friends are.


I VM'd and PM'd Cole because I thought it unimagineable that he would do such a thing to a friend, and that he mistook my screenname for someone else, or at worst was just kidding, ( just the day before, HEK had done the exact same thing in chat, even though he thought he knew for sure who I was). It wasn't to badger him, and it CERTAINLY wasn't to beg him for the $$$ back. If the $60 is that important to him, he can have it, because it's not really that important to me. $20 of it he won fair and square. The other $40 I minraised OBVIOUSLY just to get the blind back, and he was having none of it. Would he have done it WITHOUT a hand as good as AK? That now seems like a definite possibility, given that he would know even IF I was looking to angle him, there's about 10 hands I would risk calling $740 more there with allin. It was about the principle of the $$$. So now all my detractors have more fuel to add to the "Daliman sucks" fire, and I hope you've all had your fun. The fact that not a single person in this thread thinks what happened was anything less than completely my fault tells me that either people just like to pile on, their own principles be damned, (definitely possible), or that my expectations are and beliefs are just completely out of whack with reality.

FWIW, here is the transcripts of the HH's:

FullTiltPoker Game (6 max) - $10/$20 - No Limit Hold'em 2007/01/17
Daliman has 5 seconds left to act
Daliman posts the big blind of $20
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Daliman [6c 2d]
cts raises to $60
Daliman: yo
cts: sup
Daliman: $250 flip, hand after next
Daliman has 15 seconds left to act
cts: no
Daliman: you fold next back
Daliman folds
cts: no
Uncalled bet of $40 returned to cts
cts mucks
Daliman: bah
cts wins the pot ($40)
cts: i dont flip or anything
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $40 | Rake $0
Seat 2: cts (small blind) collected ($40), mucked
Seat 3: Daliman (big blind) folded before the Flop



FullTiltPoker Game (6 max) - $10/$20 - No Limit Hold'em 2007/01/17
Seat 2: cts ($2,020)
Seat 3: Daliman ($780)
Daliman: gimme back then
Daliman posts the small blind of $10
cts posts the big blind of $20
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Daliman [2s 9c]
Daliman raises to $40
Daliman: cole...
cts raises to $2,020, and is all in
cts: no f that
cts: u sat?
Daliman: wtf
Daliman has 15 seconds left to act
Daliman: you know who this is, right?
Daliman folds
Uncalled bet of $1,980 returned to cts
cts shows [Kd As] (Ace King high)
cts wins the pot ($80)
cts: yes
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $80 | Rake $0
Seat 2: cts (big blind) collected ($80)
Seat 3: Daliman (small blind) folded before the Flop

[PartyGirlUK]

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FWIW, here is the transcripts of the HH's:
.
.
.
.

Dealt to Daliman [6c 2d]
Daliman: $250 flip, hand after next
Daliman has 15 seconds left to act
***cts: no****
Daliman: you fold next back
Daliman folds
***cts: no****

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