FTP Answers: Special Fraud Edition

[berya]

I like their stucture better. On Stars after 2 hrs you are looking at 300-600 (10-20, 15-30, 25-50, 50-100, 75-150, 100-200, 100-200 ante, 200-400). On FullTilt you are only at 150-300 (15-30, 20-40, 25-50, 30-60, 40-80, 50-100, 60-120, 80-160, 100-200, 120-240). Lots of guarentee tournamets on Fulltilt. I like the fact that they have 24+2, 69+6, 100+9 guarantees almost all the time. They always cover but still it's nice to know money wise what you are looking at. I play several multi's at the same time on a few sites and I don't have the time to browse thru Stars lobby figuring what the turnout and prizes will be for one of their upcoming tournaments. Because of this I find much more tournaments that are to my liking on FullTilt than Stars.

Regular action Stars pretty much gets it all though. Tournaments I find out I'm playing 3 at FullTilt, and only like 1 on Stars, sometimes 2. I usually start my tournies around 7pm to 11pm.

[Sniper]

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Where do the confiscated funds go? It's been my cursory understanding that when a fraudulent account is locked, the funds are kept by the poker site. Is there a process whereby these funds are returned to the credit card companies, etc? I'm assuming the individuals whose credit cards were used don't end up being liable due to fraud protection, etc, thus the credit card companies are the ones who eat the damage.

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In general, in cases of credit card fraud... the credit card company processes a "chargeback" against the Merchant account.

If you extrapolate from Party's reported numbers, it is pretty clear that CC (and other) Fraud is costing the Poker Sites around $100 million/year (net of recoverable funds). In other words, this is a HUGE problem!

[grinin]

It is my understanding that chargebacks are the responsibility of gambling sites.

Additionally, I recall FTPDoug stating (in the other thread) that confiscated funds were used to offset the losses due to fraudulent activity.

[grinin]

Tracked it down

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"What is going to happen to the funds which Eric lost after being dumped? Will the unsuspecting players suffer or will they simply benefit?"

The answer is yes, Full Tilt keeps the confiscated funds of credit card fraud cases. Note that in collusion cases, everything is meticulously retraced and the injured players are returned the funds they lost to the colluders.

The reason FTP keeps money seized in fraud cases is that it is used to (very partially) cover the extreme cost of fraud. As pointed out, we are on the hook for all credit card fraud (and even get charged an extra fee when it happens) and lose far more money than we ever recoup when it comes to this kind of fraud.


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[Wahoo73]

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From the details of the games, it wouldn't be too far off the mark to say that everyone the first account played with, (until he lost it all to a certain very popular pro!), was a credit card fraudster;

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Thanks Mike for revelaing this bit of information, as this was one aspect of the ericjones case that had me cocncerned, i.e., based on the lack of information about to whom ericjones had lost the money, it appeared to me that he lost it to other accomplices, thus successfully laundering the illicit funds. Now it sounds like this was not the case.

Am I correct in assuming that the "popular pro" to whom he lost the money is an in-house FTP contract pro? If so, the pro may be contractually bound to return the illicit funds to FTP or may even do so out of a sense of loyalty to his employer.

[Wahoo73]

Excellent job, Doug!

As I noted in the Fraud Thread from Hell, I was concerned that FTP had won the battle against a fraudster, but was losing the public relations/customer service war.

Hopefully, your actions, FTPSean's future actions and FTP's improvements in customer service, fraud investigation, and, most importantly, providing clear, unambiguous and timely communication will restore/reinforce player confidence in FTP's honesty.

[FrankStallone]

Taking a hardline with someone in a very public way. Just get the other 345,125 you missed. I also wanted to send you a gift doug, one phone.

[Wongboy]

On the poll, I vote for #4, not enough info to answer. In particular, it would be interesting to see the hand histories that support chip dumping, or even to understand whether that is a part of the allegation.

I have played pretty extensively at Full Tilt in the past and it used to be my primary site. I have not played there at all in the last 4-5 months as I have been waiting for a reload bonus (and missed the last one since I was out of town).

This whole EJ episode has significantly decreased the likelihood that I will switch back to FT, even with a re-load bonus. It sounds like he is probably guilty, but I don't know that I am fully convinced at this point. I just feel that my money is safer at Stars for the time being.

[boohaa12]

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This whole EJ episode has significantly decreased the likelihood that I will switch back to FT, even with a re-load bonus. It sounds like he is probably guilty, but I don't know that I am fully convinced at this point. I just feel that my money is safer at Stars for the time being.

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bump

[Tachyon]

Suggestions:

1) Send clear information about what the player has done. Don't tell them with the first email that you send that the matter is closed without recourse. This makes you look really [censored] stupid when the site later backs down after making a mistake.

2) Give the player opportunity to appeal the initial decision, regardless of how clear cut it might be. The appeal should be reviewed by someone who was not involved in the original review in any way to ensure an unbiased re-evaluation. I am sure that you don't make these decisions without a 2nd opinion initially, but yet still mistakes happen. Another review also protects FTP against internal fraud from employees that might just want to steal a players money... or something like that anyway.

3) Even after a player has had their appeal turned down, tell them that they have exhausted the channels with FTP but give them a way to take their complaint further. i.e. The gaming commission.

John