the age of * is over

[Eagles]

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Generalizations... But yes, I dont care about * when it comes to poker advice or anything non-OOT, but in OOT I am more likely to take someone with a * less serious.


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Shake,
You must consider while this may be your stance, most posters will disagree with your statement.

[ShakeZula06]

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IMO a * should be given when it is clearly deserved but they are giving out too many *'s.


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BBV is such a better run forum overall.


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I agree with these points.

[stabn]

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Two non-OOT mods give their advice on OOT *ing issues, even though the OOT mods have made it clear that they don't desire their advice.... feel free to argue his points... but at least get your facts straight!

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FYP

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QFT

[ShakeZula06]

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Generalizations... But yes, I dont care about * when it comes to poker advice or anything non-OOT, but in OOT I am more likely to take someone with a * less serious.


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Shake,
You must consider while this may be your stance, most posters will disagree with your statement.

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Why should I care what you say? You got a * next to your name, your going straight to my ignore list! [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[KneeCo]

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it arguably goes against what the forums should be,

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why?

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Back of Theory of Poker:
"For the best discussion of poker and gambling on the Internet, visit our website at www.twoplustwo.com"
Actual Two Plus Two forums:
Your picture of Jessica Alba is too big? Your branded an idiot, loser!

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it makes no sense from a 2p2 is primarily a business point of view,

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Left hand: "Please Come To Our Site, Click our Ads, Buy Our Books."
Right hand: "[censored] Off."

Imagine someone who reads TOP and then visits 2p2 based on the ad on the back, he's just playing around getting his feet wet has a few posts, then he goes to OOT sees a thread about his favorite movie and posts a picture related to it. Suddenly he finds himself branded a "tard" according to the OOT sticky. He thinks, chuck you farley, there goes another customer.
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from a practical point of view, the fact that every month seems to bring more *s than the previous one should be enough to demonstrate it simply isn't working.


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Why is that the standard? I think would be better just to ban/exile the posters after two * instead of three, is that better?

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To the limited extent that I care, I don't understand the last part of the question, but what I'm saying is this:
Say you have a city where there are no traffic laws and a lot of people are driving really fast. City decides this is bad, they create speed limits and start handing out tickets with the aim of curbing speeding. If after a year of handing out tickets left, right and center there is more speeding than ever with no residual effects of the ticketing, probably time to start thinking about conceding defeat and moving on.


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I never really cared about the *s because it was primarily an OOT thing, but that's obviously not the case anymore, there's posts about this in multiple forums (including this one*).


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No, it's only an OOT thing. No other forum does it. Doesn't it make sense to talk about 2p2 policies in this forum? The only other place its discussed is BBV, being that everyone their pretty much hates OOT.

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Other mods have dealt with * issues, The * reply is used throughout 2p2, Users have to carry the * in all the forums, long time users lose their custom title which often have a lot to do with a particular other forum where maybe they won a challenge or something, ... . Its not an OOT thing, and what's worse it could be, but OOT doesn't really want it to be.

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In my opinion, it's obviously time to do away with these, but maybe I'm alone.

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It's sooo obvious but you can't give any actual reasons why.

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I already did.


********

Now I answered your because you were pestering me about it, but in the future don't just ask 'why' 'why' 'why' until you lose your breath, it's what 5 year olds do. Think for 5 seconds, figure it out. Also you said you wouldn't post here again if I didn't answer them. Pretend I didn't.

[ShakeZula06]

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Back of Theory of Poker:
"For the best discussion of poker and gambling on the Internet, visit our website at www.twoplustwo.com"
Actual Two Plus Two forums:
Your picture of Jessica Alba is too big? Your branded an idiot, loser!


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First, you're supposed to read the faq before posting.
second, your not branded a loser, it's branded that you have one strike against you for violating rules.
Third, I think * for oversized pictures are lame.
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Left hand: "Please Come To Our Site, Click our Ads, Buy Our Books."
Right hand: "[censored] Off."

Imagine someone who reads TOP and then visits 2p2 based on the ad on the back, he's just playing around getting his feet wet has a few posts, then he goes to OOT sees a thread about his favorite movie and posts a picture related to it. Suddenly he finds himself branded a "tard" according to the OOT sticky. He thinks, chuck you farley, there goes another customer.


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same as above.
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To the limited extent that I care, I don't understand the last part of the question, but what I'm saying is this:
Say you have a city where there are no traffic laws and a lot of people are driving really fast. City decides this is bad, they create speed limits and start handing out tickets with the aim of curbing speeding. If after a year of handing out tickets left, right and center there is more speeding than ever with no residual effects of the ticketing, probably time to start thinking about conceding defeat and moving on.

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Horrible anology. Do you think it's Ok for people to speed?
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Other mods have dealt with * issues, The * reply is used throughout 2p2, Users have to carry the * in all the forums, long time users lose their custom title which often have a lot to do with a particular other forum where maybe they won a challenge or something, ... . Its not an OOT thing, and what's worse it could be, but OOT doesn't really want it to be.


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No one's forcing them to break OOT's rules. Your custom title is on the line if you choose to break them. And while maybe a few forums will have problems with people posting * in strat forums, I can't imagine it's hard to solve. For god sakes it's against OOTs rules to post that anyway.
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in the future don't just ask 'why' 'why' 'why' until you lose your breath, it's what 5 year olds do.

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In the future don't post stupid unbacked assertions. See that's something you could have learned from the politics forum, damn.
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Think for 5 seconds, figure it out.

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I can't because what you said is wrong.
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Also you said you wouldn't post here again if I didn't answer them. Pretend I didn't.

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Naw, I'll just keep pestering you for posting retarded garbage like "* make no sense from a business perspective".

[RunDownHouse]

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But I know if my custom title were to be taken away to be replaced by some retarded * I would be pretty pissed.

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So I'd bet you think twice about how much your post sucks before you post it in OOT, right? Or if you didn't, and said * replaced your title, you wouldn't make the same sucky mistake in the future, right?

Sounds like the system works pretty well to me.

Yes, of course the * system is at least partially about punishment. But that's a good thing. The worst retardation that happens on the internet always occurs because people think they can rush their fat little fingers over their keyboard and post whatever they want without consequence. Implement consequences, and you curb the idiocy sharply.

[RunDownHouse]

I pretty much just skipped all of KneeCo's posts, but this part caught my eye:

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Suddenly he finds himself branded a "tard" according to the OOT sticky. He thinks, chuck you farley, there goes another customer.

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It seems exactly the opposite to me. New users care much less about the * than established, "respected" posters. This thread and TWP's both have way more responses - heated, serious, upset responses - than any similar threads by users with less than a couple hundred posts.

[TheWorstPlayer]

FWIW, I was a lot more upset at Daryn being a bozo than at having the *. I think the * is stupid for what was quite obviously an honest mistake which had several very simple remedies.

Look at it this way: the fundamental purpose of the forums in general is to foster interesting discussions, perhaps primarily about poker and gambling or perhaps not at this point, I honestly don't know. But certainly the forums are here for interesting discussion.

The rules in OOT, and in every forum, are there because certain types of behaviour disrupt normal, civilized discussion. That can be hardcore links which degrade the level of civility (and perhaps have legal consequences as well, I don't know) or it can be swear words (hence the filter) or personal attacks, or any number of other things that I'm sure we can all come up with.

Sometimes, and moreso in OOT than in other places, posters are not willing to follow the rules. In these cases, punishments are necessary to ensure that a few bad apples do not ruin the forums for the majority of posters. These punishments include temporary banning, exiling from OOT, permanent banning, and *s (maybe some others, too, I don't know). These are meant to ensure that the forums remain a civilized place where good, decent discussion can take place.

One technical glitch which can make discussion difficult is when large pics are posted which cause people to have to scroll horizontally. This particularly becomes a problem when people maliciously post overly long words or pics into threads in order to make them difficult to read. Therefore, a rule warning people against doing this is useful. Particularly since some people might not realise the problems this causes without the rule to notify them.

However, is a poster who posted one overly large picture in one of his 15,000 posts someone who needs to be punished in order to make sure that they do not disrupt the forums? Hardly. He is clearly someone who did not have enough time to preview his post and made a mistake when posting it. Surely a friendly PM and an edit from a mod would have been sufficient to both remind the poster of the problems of large pics and to return the thread to normalcy for those who are trying to read it.

That type of response would have sent the message that the mods are working truly to preserve the purpose of the forums. And that they view 2+2 as a community where respecting other posters is of fundamental importance. The response of immediately giving the poster a * without any notification of why or of which mod gave it to him does not send that message. It sense the message of '[censored] you - you made a mistake and now you must pay the penalty.'

And when the poster contacts the mod with a very civil, friendly message asking to have the * removed and apologizing for the disruption he inadvertently caused, to respond by saying 'those are the rules. you have to follow the rules. i'm just following the rules.' is 100 times more disruptive to the forum and the community than any overly large picture post ever was.

That fact is blatant from the numerous posts which followed, several of them quite vitriolic. This post is long, and most likely boring, but I really like 2+2 and that is almost exclusively because of the sense of community here. People meet people in real life all the time and feel like they already know each other. People trust other people with tens of thousands of dollars on the basis of active participation in this community. And for a mod, or group of mods, to so clearly disrespect that community really bothers me and is just a sad thing for 2+2 and everyone who is involved in it. I sincerely hope that Mat or David or Mason or whomever addresses this issue. The * system is broken, the modding in OOT appears to me to be broken, and it is damaging a very nice community.

[THEOSU]

rdh, shake,


You guys are being obtuse if you seriously think that *s don't affect other fora. You've got people who don't visit OOT much or at all saying so, as well as moderators from other forums saying they do. I think this pretty much contradicts your arguments straight off.

You're attempting to say that *s SHOULDN'T affect other fora, which is what everyone else contributing to this thread is also saying. The trouble is - it does. Obviously. Thus, the * system is being more or less proven to not work for any forum but OOT. And there are houses other than OOT to mind.