Torre gone

[JaredL]

[ QUOTE ]
I think Torre has been a master of using his bullpen. The best example that comes to mind is when he unexpectedly took out Denny Neagle with two outs in the 5th in a 3-2 game with Mike Piazza coming up in the 2000 World Series. He brought in David Cone, who got out Piazza and then they went on the win the game 3-2.

The Yankees gave up 767 runs this year, Detroit just 675.

[/ QUOTE ]

Andy,

Do you think he uses Rivera well? I personally think teams baby their closers too much so I'm biased here but I think a pitcher of Rivera's talent should be used a lot more in the 8th and even 7th inning if the pitcher is in a jam.

[shemp]

[ QUOTE ]
So you think using Villone and Proctor as much as he did was prudent? Having 2 guys in your bullpen who lead the league in relief pitches thrown? That's good bullpen management, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Using Proctor & Villone as much as he did says more about his roster than his mismanagement of said roster. Talk to your GM. Btw, my name is 7th Inning, tell Mussina I said "hi, wish he'd come around more often."

I routinely dislike or at least am confused by my team's moves -- but defer to the possibility that the manager may actually know his roster/schedule/baseball better than I. I also suspect, that on the unlikely occasion that I'm right, it is probably very small potatoes in the greater scheme of things.

One thing, though: you don't have to sell me that Torre got too much credit for their winning... (I do suspect he probably did a great job.)

[lastchance]

Torre may be the most overrated manager in baseball because he has 4 rings, but managing those egos and that dughouse is something he is likely the best in the game at. This reminds me of the George Karl firing by the Sonics. That was pretty goddamn awful, and this one is too.

Probably less awful than firing Brian Cashman though, more awful than trading A-Rod for signifigant compensation.

[aheravi]

[ QUOTE ]
CDS,

Are you suggesting firing Bobby Cox would be the right move too?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll get flamed for it, but I thought he should've been gone a few years ago.

[lastchance]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
CDS,

Are you suggesting firing Bobby Cox would be the right move too?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll get flamed for it, but I thought he should've been gone a few years ago.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why?

[LionelHutz00]

1. rehire showalter
2. fire showalter
3. win world series (2008 ws mvp: carl pavano)
4. repeat

[Jake (The Snake)]

I don't understand why Cashman is not getting any blame here. As others have pointed out, the problem in recent postseasons has been pitching. Cashman has done a terrible job of evaluating pitching talent in the past few years and deserves much more blame than Joe imo.

[CharlieDontSurf]

Cashman didn't really have full control until this past year.
Tampa had a huge part in such brilliant moves as letting Petite and Leiber go, trading our young pitching propects, signing Pavano and Wright...etc etc

[shemp]

[ QUOTE ]
Huh?

I gave an example of what I think was excellent use of hte bullpen; I could give more. I guess I'm not understanding your point. It's true I've never beeen on a big league bench, but does it really take a chicken to recognize an egg?

[/ QUOTE ]

My point was that you were giving your manager credit for his handling of the pen -- which I almost never hear from fans. Fans seem to invariably criticise their managers on this point. It is the easiest thing to second guess. And fans routinely do this second guessing without a fraction of the information available to the manager or any appreciation of the depth of the thought process typically involved.

I was in no way attacking what you were writing.

[Triumph36]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So you think using Villone and Proctor as much as he did was prudent? Having 2 guys in your bullpen who lead the league in relief pitches thrown? That's good bullpen management, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Using Proctor & Villone as much as he did says more about his roster than his mismanagement of said roster. Talk to your GM. Btw, my name is 7th Inning, tell Mussina I said "hi, wish he'd come around more often."

I routinely dislike or at least am confused by my team's moves -- but defer to the possibility that the manager may actually know his roster/schedule/baseball better than I. I also suspect, that on the unlikely occasion that I'm right, it is probably very small potatoes in the greater scheme of things.

One thing, though: you don't have to sell me that Torre got too much credit for their winning... (I do suspect he probably did a great job.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you know it's the manager who takes the starting pitcher out? I understand why they have to handle Wright with kid gloves - why was Wang taken out in Game 1 with 92 pitches? And then why wasn't Johnson taken out when he clearly had nothing left in Game 3? I just don't understand his moves sometimes - and I'm not second guessing - I disagreed with these moves to begin with when they were made. Both were for that silly lefty-righty matchup which is not as statistically significant as major league managers think it is.