Winning in Tough Hold 'em Games

[Wolf44]

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I hope Mason pays attention here because I know he takes this binding and paper stuff seriously.

He says he spends more on the thick paper and the best binding they can get.

But it's really freaking thick and kind of awkward imo.

The Weighing the Odds with the thinner paper still seems like a more professionally made book imo and mine has endured the wear better also.

Mason's in the publishing business and I am not though.

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So true. I've always hated the 2p2 books. Specifically the newer ones have been the worst. WTO is significantly better in every way.

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Is there anyone who does not agree?

[*TT*]

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I hope Mason pays attention here because I know he takes this binding and paper stuff seriously.

He says he spends more on the thick paper and the best binding they can get.

But it's really freaking thick and kind of awkward imo.

The Weighing the Odds with the thinner paper still seems like a more professionally made book imo and mine has endured the wear better also.

Mason's in the publishing business and I am not though.

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So true. I've always hated the 2p2 books. Specifically the newer ones have been the worst. WTO is significantly better in every way.

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Is there anyone who does not agree?

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Me.

[downrange]

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I hope Mason pays attention here because I know he takes this binding and paper stuff seriously.

He says he spends more on the thick paper and the best binding they can get.

But it's really freaking thick and kind of awkward imo.

The Weighing the Odds with the thinner paper still seems like a more professionally made book imo and mine has endured the wear better also.

Mason's in the publishing business and I am not though.

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So true. I've always hated the 2p2 books. Specifically the newer ones have been the worst. WTO is significantly better in every way..

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And so are D&B's ("holdem on the come", etc.) I buy their books now instead of 2p2.

IMM the big problem with 2p2 books is they aren't novels - you don't read it once and throw it away. You will be repeatedly opening the thing, trying to write notes on paper without it slamming shut, or breaking it in two because you have to smash it flat so you can take your notes, etc.

As an engineer I've been through a ton of books and IMO 2p2 are just about the single worst-made books from a study material standpoint - they're really standout bad. Just wander through a Border's, randomly pick up paperbacks and try to find something worse to study from. So I was very disappointed to hear that stoxtrader's book would be 2p2 because that means I won't be buying it.

I have top, sshe, hepfap, itpm, and one or two others and after getting a tire iron stuck in nlhtap trying to keep it open I said f* this and got my money back. I've had it with 2p2 books. I can either get irritated with their pos armor plated books I'm TRYING TO FREAKIN STUDY out of or read the forums.

Ironically Mason always seems to be so proud that his books are designed for the ppl that put them back on the shelf as opposed to the ppl that are actually putting money in his pocket. That's one bass ackwards business plan if you ask me.

Mason is apparently a brilliant guy but suffers from 'brilliant guy' syndrome - he thinks anything he does is brilliant just because he's doing it. Well if his binding idea is so great, how come nobody's copying him? Mason?

[Senator7]

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I hope Mason pays attention here because I know he takes this binding and paper stuff seriously.

He says he spends more on the thick paper and the best binding they can get.

But it's really freaking thick and kind of awkward imo.

The Weighing the Odds with the thinner paper still seems like a more professionally made book imo and mine has endured the wear better also.

Mason's in the publishing business and I am not though.

[/ QUOTE ]

So true. I've always hated the 2p2 books. Specifically the newer ones have been the worst. WTO is significantly better in every way..

[/ QUOTE ]

And so are D&B's ("holdem on the come", etc.) I buy their books now instead of 2p2.

IMM the big problem with 2p2 books is they aren't novels - you don't read it once and throw it away. You will be repeatedly opening the thing, trying to write notes on paper without it slamming shut, or breaking it in two because you have to smash it flat so you can take your notes, etc.

As an engineer I've been through a ton of books and IMO 2p2 are just about the single worst-made books from a study material standpoint - they're really standout bad. Just wander through a Border's, randomly pick up paperbacks and try to find something worse to study from. So I was very disappointed to hear that stoxtrader's book would be 2p2 because that means I won't be buying it.

I have top, sshe, hepfap, itpm, and one or two others and after getting a tire iron stuck in nlhtap trying to keep it open I said f* this and got my money back. I've had it with 2p2 books. I can either get irritated with their pos armor plated books I'm TRYING TO FREAKIN STUDY out of or read the forums.

Ironically Mason always seems to be so proud that his books are designed for the ppl that put them back on the shelf as opposed to the ppl that are actually putting money in his pocket. That's one bass ackwards business plan if you ask me.

Mason is apparently a brilliant guy but suffers from 'brilliant guy' syndrome - he thinks anything he does is brilliant just because he's doing it. Well if his binding idea is so great, how come nobody's copying him? Mason?

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My 2+2 collection is the one thing I would try to save if my apartment were on fire. That being said, I have to agree that the 2+2 books are designed much worse than other poker books on the market.

I, too, have been very impressed with both the design and content of D&B poker books and I'm really looking forward to their spring and summer releases.

[Mason Malmuth]

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Well if his binding idea is so great, how come nobody's copying him? Mason?

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Much of what we're doing is being copied. But what we're doing is much more expensive, so it does slow others down.

MM

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Everyone:

It's interesting, but I've been getting a bunch of these lately, including emails and private messages. On the forum, they all seem to come from new posters, but I can't help but think that a little campaign has been started to damage the sales of our books which are currently unsurpassed right now.

For everyone's information, we use top quality paper, do a top quality binding (which took us many years to achieve) that includes the use of PUR glue (which I don't think anyone else in our industry is using), have the best art work inside the books, use top notch cover stock, and so on. If anyone has doubt, all you need to do is go to your nearest Borders or Barnes & Noble, where they have a pretty good poker section, and start comparing the quality of our books to the others. Most don't compare very well.

Anyway, there's always someone out there who seems to be jealous of our success, and I've gotten use to it. As for Winning in Tough Hold 'em Games; Short-Handed and High-Stakes Concepts and Theory for Limit Hold ’em by Nick “Stoxtrader” Grudzien and Geoff “Zobags” Herzog, it is an excellent book that will be very beneficial to those who purchase and study it.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Senator7]

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Hi Everyone:

It's interesting, but I've been getting a bunch of these lately, including emails and private messages. On the forum, they all seem to come from new posters, but I can't help but think that a little campaign has been started to damage the sales of our books which are currently unsurpassed right now.

For everyone's information, we use top quality paper, do a top quality binding (which took us many years to achieve) that includes the use of PUR glue (which I don't think anyone else in our industry is using), have the best art work inside the books, use top notch cover stock, and so on. If anyone has doubt, all you need to do is go to your nearest Borders or Barnes & Noble, where they have a pretty good poker section, and start comparing the quality of our books to the others. Most don't compare very well.

Anyway, there's always someone out there who seems to be jealous of our success, and I've gotten use to it. As for Winning in Tough Hold 'em Games; Short-Handed and High-Stakes Concepts and Theory for Limit Hold ’em by Nick “Stoxtrader” Grudzien and Geoff “Zobags” Herzog, it is an excellent book that will be very beneficial to those who purchase and study it.

Best wishes,
Mason

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First off, I would never be a part of a campaign to cause harm to 2+2. As I said, my 2+2 collection is the first thing I would grab if my apartment was on fire.

I'm not sure its a matter of people being jealous and I don't really think its possible to damage the sales of 2+2 books. Let's face it, 2+2 publications are the benchmark by which all other gambling books are judged. The content of most 2+2 books is world class. I think what you're seeing is people offering constructive criticism as a way to improve 2+2 publications.

After reading your above post, my question would be: what is your primary goal in using the materials you use in constructing 2+2 books? Do you use it to improve the longevity of the book? Do you use it to make it easier to read? I think people understand the materials you use when these complaints come up, but I'm not certain they understand why you use them or what your goal or primary focus is.

The other question I have is are the high end materials you mentioned the reason why most 2+2 books are $30 a piece or is the price because of the content? Just curious...

[PoorTom]

Come off it Mason, not everyone who (constructively, by the way) critcises you has an agenda.

I personally aren't that bothered either way, but i can see people's point regarding the binding. You produce a good product and I'm buying it for the content in any case. But just because the way you're doing it is expensive and time consuming doesn't make it the best. You could plate all your books in gold, but would that make them great?

It's about fit-for-purpose - and, regardless of the apparent quality of the paper, binding, whatever, I do think that there is some room for improvement in terms of fit-for-purpose. They're still great books, and I don't believe whatever problems there are are as bad as some are suggesting, but personally I did find WTO somewhat easier to work with - the spine isn't as thick/hard as 2+2 books, meaning it's easier to handle and use. It's no big deal, but it's something to think about.

Take from this what you will.

Cheers,

Poor Tom

[Mason Malmuth]

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what is your primary goal in using the materials you use in constructing 2+2 books? Do you use it to improve the longevity of the book? Do you use it to make it easier to read? I think people understand the materials you use when these complaints come up, but I'm not certain they understand why you use them or what your goal or primary focus is.

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Hi Senator:

A number of things come into play. First off, we try to produce the best product possible. This includes one that looks good and which will hold up to the extra wear and tear that our books go through. Thus, top quality durable paper that's a high quality white color as well as top notch art work throughout the book.

Second, we also have to do a number of things to keep our costs in line. For instance, we special order the boxes our books come in to make sure that they fit snuggly inside the box so that when we ship we reduce the possibility of damage. We have also had numerous meetings with our main LTL (less than truckload) carrier Fed Ex Freight to explore ways to reduce shipping damage.


Over 20 years ago, David's book Winning Poker which today is called The Theory of Poker went out of print. Gambler's Book Club here in Las Vegas was selling used copies for $30 each and they had a very long waiting list. That's how our initial prices got set. It was what the market will bear.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Tom:

One problem we have had with binding is that a few years after the books are done, the glue will dry out and present problems then. Also, we are in Las Vegas, and it gets very hot here which also can damage the glue if the books are stored throughout the summer (which is the case). So we have now gone to a special more expensive type of glue that's very difficult to apply, but which cures stronger and more flexible than every other glue that I know about which is used in the book binding trade. This glue also has the ability not to dry out in our kind of weather. It is the best solution for our operation.

Best wishes,
Mason