|
|
#52
04-23-2007, 12:21 AM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: The Axiom of Choice
[ QUOTE ]
There is of course valtaherra's line of objection, but I find it to be patently absurd. Anyone who believes that any person (even themselves) always knows what is best for themselves is simply deceiving themselves. [/ QUOTE ] Common now. I never said anything like this. And this is a typical big-statist strawman, too. No one else can ever know what I *want* better than I can. No one else can ever know what Joe Schmo *wants* better than Joe Schmo. These are absolute statements. How many choices I *want* is X. X is subjective and probably frequently changing. No one else can ever know X, nor could they know how much I abhor coercive interference that limits my choices and how much it makes everything about my welfare *worse*. 
|
|
#54
04-23-2007, 01:03 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: The Axiom of Choice
[ QUOTE ]
Who cares what you *want* if what you *want* is worse for you than something else? Shouldn't you perhaps change what you want? [/ QUOTE ] What's better or worse for me is for me to decide. And whether I should change or not is also for me to decide. Nobody else.
|
|
#55
04-23-2007, 01:39 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: The Axiom of Choice
[ QUOTE ]
What's better or worse for me is for me to decide. [/ QUOTE ] LOL. Ok let me try this. You at 1 year old. Still true? 3? 5? 7? Yesterday? You ever ask for anyone's advice?
|
|
#56
04-23-2007, 02:15 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: The Axiom of Choice
[ QUOTE ]
Who cares what you *want* if what you *want* is worse for you than something else? Shouldn't you perhaps change what you want? [/ QUOTE ] What is best for me, medically for instance, or legally, and what I want are often incompatible. Who cares indeed. My objection to the absurd claim that someone else "knows what I want" still stands.
|
|
#57
04-23-2007, 02:27 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: The Axiom of Choice
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] What's better or worse for me is for me to decide. [/ QUOTE ] LOL. [/ QUOTE ] Lol? Really? Ok, who do you think has the right to choose for pvn what is best for him, since the idea of pvn ultimately deciding whats best is laughable?
|
|
#58
04-23-2007, 04:30 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: The Axiom of Choice
[ QUOTE ]
Lol? Really? Ok, who do you think has the right to choose for pvn what is best for him, since the idea of pvn ultimately deciding whats best is laughable? [/ QUOTE ] Why must you refuse to even adress the rest of my post? It makes my point fairly clear. What is it about being a human that makes you think we are capable of deciding what is best for us? I don't think that people are incapable of deciding what is best or worst for them. The negation of pvn's statement and that statement are not the same. It is simply my position that it is absurd to assume that people can simply "decide" what is best for them. I've already given two clear cases which disprove both that people know what is best for themselves and that people will act in accordance with that knowledge. Rather than respond to anything I say, you argue pointless semnatics and state that what you "want" is not up for debate. Fair enough. What you "want" I cannot decide for you. What is "best" for you is another thing entirely. We can keep it simple for now and assume an entirely static and unified conception of selfhood (not assuming this would essentially destroy your position). There is then an objectively true utility function. There's even an objectively true happiness function while we're at it. You may be in the best position to know it, but that doesn't make you infalliable, and it's certainly quite conceivable that I might know it better. Much like I would defer to, say, Hawking on most matters of astrophysics, I could still maintain quite confidently that the sun was a star even if he told me it was a marshmallow. Your position is at best one of realistic pragmatism, but frankly isn't entirely accurate even at that, and certainly shouldn't be made as some sort of epistemoligical claim.
|
|
#59
04-23-2007, 04:31 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: The Axiom of Choice
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Interesting talk by Barry Schwartz. I don't want to say much because it would be better to just go into without any preconcpetions, but I think this adresses some very fundamental issues with regards to capitalism. [/ QUOTE ] The market already automagically limits choices to those that people actually choose. People didn't choose the Edsel. The next year, it was not included amongst the list of choices. Voila. [/ QUOTE ] You obviously have understood roughly 0% of this thread. Read and try again please.
|
|
#60
04-23-2007, 09:55 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: The Axiom of Choice
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] What's better or worse for me is for me to decide. [/ QUOTE ] LOL. Ok let me try this. You at 1 year old. Still true? 3? 5? 7? Yesterday? [/ QUOTE ] Oh, the tired old "kids can't make their own decisions, therefore I can boss adults around" argument. [ QUOTE ] You ever ask for anyone's advice? [/ QUOTE ] Yeah. So what? Last time I asked someone for advice, I wasn't compelled to follow it.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
