My Hall of Fame Ballot

[Mondogarage]

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HOF Monitor is meant to be predictive, not qualitative. Jim Rice isn't the best hitter not in the HOF, he's just the most likely to get in.

Once again, we're talking about who should be elected, not who will. Who do you think should be elected?

[/ QUOTE ]

I already gave my list early in this thread.

Tim Raines was a very good player for a long time, but was only a truly elite player for a very small period of time, and stuck around for a long slow decline, but never dropped below being a good player. Only three times was he even in the top 10 of MVP voting. He's simply not a HOFer.

My list doesn't include people who are not yet eligible. I'm pretty sure I'd vote for Thome and Delgado if they were eligible.

[Jack of Arcades]

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The topic says "My Hall of Fame Ballot". So where's your ballot (aside from saying if Raines doesn't make it, burn down the Hall), or are you simply trolling for the purpose of trolling?

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I'm simply disagreeing with you and debating the relative merits of Jim Rice vs Tim Raines. How am I trolling?

My ballot would be:

Tim Raines
Bert Blyleven
Alan Trammell
Goose Gossage
Mark McGwire.

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do think Jim Rice was a more feared player than Tim Raines.

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Who do you think was a better player?

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Raines was never even an All Star after he was 27.

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So Rice was more popular. Who do you think was a better player?

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More respected statheads than yourself consider Raines a marginal candidate, at best.

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This is silly. Who do you think is the better player?

By the way, if you're referring to Bill James you're wrong. Bill James ranks Tim Raines as the 8th best left fielder of all time, and Jim Rice as 27th.

[Dids]

FACT:

Dave Kingman (and Greg Luzinki) have the shame of being compared favorably to a 12 year old Dids. (all power, no eye, no glove, no speed).

Tim Raines is a damn god.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
HOF Monitor is meant to be predictive, not qualitative. Jim Rice isn't the best hitter not in the HOF, he's just the most likely to get in.

Once again, we're talking about who should be elected, not who will. Who do you think should be elected?

[/ QUOTE ]

I already gave my list early in this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

So you were talking about who you think should get in? Why, then, did you say you were talking about who you think would get in?

[ QUOTE ]
Tim Raines was a very good player for a long time, but was only a truly elite player for a very small period of time, and stuck around for a long slow decline, but never dropped below being a good player. Only three times was he even in the top 10 of MVP voting. He's simply not a HOFer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jim Rice had only 4 great seasons, and they weren't as good as Raines' best.

[Triumph36]

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Read the topic title again. What would give you the idea that we're talking about who you think will make it rather than who should make it?

Who do you think is a better player, Jim Rice or Tim Raines?

[/ QUOTE ]

The topic says "My Hall of Fame Ballot". So where's your ballot (aside from saying if Raines doesn't make it, burn down the Hall), or are you simply trolling for the purpose of trolling?

I do think Jim Rice was a more feared player than Tim Raines. Apparentely, I'm not the only one who thinks Rice. Raines was never even an All Star after he was 27. More respected statheads than yourself consider Raines a marginal candidate, at best.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raines wasn't an all-star because he played in Montreal.

[Jack of Arcades]

Actually, Raines was an All-Star in Montreal. It was as a White Sox he never made the ASG.

[Triumph36]

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Actually, Raines was an All-Star in Montreal. It was as a White Sox he never made the ASG.

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I'm aware of that, but he played his final 3 seasons in Montreal, then played for a Chicago team that already had a shoo-in for All-Star with Frank Thomas, plus he didn't put up the stats that All-Star voters prize anymore (SBs).

[Mondogarage]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
More respected statheads than yourself consider Raines a marginal candidate, at best.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is silly. Who do you think is the better player?

By the way, if you're referring to Bill James you're wrong. Bill James ranks Tim Raines as the 8th best left fielder of all time, and Jim Rice as 27th.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill James also predicts Jim Rice as a much liklier HOFer than Tim Raines, using his own predictor. He may rate Raines a better player, but he doesn't rate him nearly as high a HOF candidate.

I think they were roughly equal as players, given the differences in their eras, and I think Rice was more dominant during his best stretch than Raines was during his best stretch, and less players comparable to Rice during his best years than there were to Raines during his best years.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
Bill James also predicts Jim Rice as a much liklier HOFer than Tim Raines, using his own predictor. He may rate Raines a better player, but he doesn't rate him nearly as high a HOF candidate.


[/ QUOTE ]

Are you mentally unable to make the distinction between who should make the HOF and who will make the HOF?

Are you contending that there's criteria other than who was the best player in determining who should make the HOF?

If you asked Bill James who he thinks should make the HOF, Tim Raines of Jim Rice, what would he say?

[Mondogarage]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Read the topic title again. What would give you the idea that we're talking about who you think will make it rather than who should make it?

Who do you think is a better player, Jim Rice or Tim Raines?

[/ QUOTE ]

The topic says "My Hall of Fame Ballot". So where's your ballot (aside from saying if Raines doesn't make it, burn down the Hall), or are you simply trolling for the purpose of trolling?

I do think Jim Rice was a more feared player than Tim Raines. Apparentely, I'm not the only one who thinks Rice. Raines was never even an All Star after he was 27. More respected statheads than yourself consider Raines a marginal candidate, at best.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raines wasn't an all-star because he played in Montreal.

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He was voted a starter twice as an Expo, and was named to the roster by the AS manager as an Expo five times.

He wasn't an all star after the age of 27 because the AS managers through the 90s didn't think he deserved to be on the roster more than the other substitutes named by the manager (aside from the slots where every team had to have at least one player). He probably could have been an AS in '92-93, but I don't know what OFers displaced him in those years.