2/4 B&M - Bet or checkraise monster flop that I capped preflop? - Page 6

Bob T. · #51 03-01-2007, 05:18 PM

On this hand, you are not worried about protecting your hand. The pot is already fricken huge. Anyone and everyone who will eventually beat you on this hand will have the odds to run you down.

What you are worried about is making the pot that you are a favorite to win big enough so that you need a pony to carry all of those blue chips to the cage.

If you cap preflop, and check the flop, and then checkraise, everyone from this planet is going to recognize that you have pocket jacks, and just flopped top set. They will still chase, but it will probably kill your action, and you won't be going multiple bets on every street, unless someone catches a better hand. Now, you are playing 2-4 live, so that might not be a problem, because it isn't necessarily true that all of your opponents are from this planet, but they probably have seen the same play on their home planet anyway.

So why not just bet out, like you have aces or kings, and are trying to protect your one pair hand, and let your opponents think that they are drawing to more than two outs, if they even have that. They'll stick around, maybe the threebettor has aces, and will put you on kings, and will raise you again.

At that point, you could threebet the flop, or you could donk the turn and try and get a threebet in there.

Anyway, Bet the flop, because it looks natural, and the best way to build the pot is to not do anything that looks tricky.

JJH3984 · #52 03-01-2007, 06:21 PM

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Anyway, Bet the flop, because it looks natural, and the best way to build the pot is to not do anything that looks tricky.

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Strangely enough, I'm way more likely to check with pocket aces here.

bravos1 · #53 03-01-2007, 07:31 PM

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I would never cap preflop w/ JJ, rarely do w/ AA.

The question is, can I wait til the turn to c/r?

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Seriously? You don't cap AA?

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Rarely, might be a stretch. I would say that when given the option I cap around 50% of the time.

I don't like MONEY.

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FYP! Not capping AA is just poor play.

OP, lead flop and hope for a raise! When ever I see someone cap PF and then check the flop, the first thing thought through my head is "LOL FPS!"

bernie · #54 03-01-2007, 07:41 PM

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I think you can easily assume two different overcards are out there (and likely all three) in people's hands and probably an underpair.

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If this is live(you mentioned 2-4 B&M), this is much too narrow a range. More like, any 2 suited. Any A. Loose passives come in with all sorts of crap. Hell, this is too tight a range for 10-20.

b

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You wouldn't assume in this case that you're dealing with at least 2 overcards? The 3-better alone likely has two or an overpair. I'm not saying each player likely has an overcard or a decent hand, just that by playing against 4 other players I'm going to assume that I'm up against at least 2 overcards. Whether they're in hands like K4s, A2o, Q8o, whatever.K4, A2, Q8, whatever.

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85s is more likely than Q8o.

What I'm saying is, their range is wider than you're stating. It's 2-4 B&M.

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bernie · #55 03-01-2007, 07:51 PM

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Seriously, are you a baby about everything? Look at the preflop charts. A pair of jacks is not in the capping hands. Would you like a page number? Too [censored] bad, you'll have to crack it open yourself (it might help you out).

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You realize the charts weren't supposed to be taken literally and aren't written in stone? They're just a guide. If you can play well postflop(which really isn't that tough if you know you're likely against an overpair and/or especially when an A hits the flop), it's not a huge deal to cap this.

I believe it also states QQ is a reraising hand. QQ plays pretty much like JJ. Most will play them the same and cut the line off at TT.

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Even most [censored] players will ditch Q2s when its 2 bets back to them.

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Ime, not in B&M 2-4 they won't ditch that if they've put money in. That'd be rare. That'd be rare in B&M 4-8. People like to play in big pots.

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bernie · #56 03-01-2007, 07:56 PM

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There are other reasons to simply call the 3-bet. It adds deception to you hand.

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Actually, imo, it shows your hand a bit more than disguises it. Qs and Js are the most common pocket pair hands played this way.

After all, what are they putting you on when you cap it? Probably not QQ or JJ since those hands your opponents would most likely just have called the 3 bet.

b

Scarmiglio · #57 03-01-2007, 07:59 PM

Bernie - agreed, many 4/8 players will call 2-3 bets cold with ANYTHING after they've already called one bet. They'll do the same thing on the flop. It's funny how low limit players will call 2+ bets cold preflop or on the flop, but fold to one bet on the turn.

bernie · #58 03-01-2007, 08:01 PM

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When you hit your set, especially on this dry board, and against a bunch of passives, I'd bet and hope to be able to 3-bet. Why screw around? Win it now or on the turn if you can.

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When I flop a set, I'm not hoping to win it on the flop or turn. I want as much action as possible. Especially from hands drawing near dead. Why do you want to fore-go all that value once you hit your hand?

General observation: why is there a trend of people afraid of flopping sets and getting action? 2nd thread this week where that thinking has come in.:

In this pot, the likelihood you'll take this down on the flop or turn is about zero.

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Scarmiglio · #59 03-01-2007, 08:02 PM

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There are other reasons to simply call the 3-bet. It adds deception to you hand.

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Actually, imo, it shows your hand a bit more than disguises it. Qs and Js are the most common pocket pair hands played this way.

After all, what are they putting you on when you cap it? Probably not QQ or JJ since those hands your opponents would most likely just have called the 3 bet.

b

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QQ & JJ may be often played this way, but so are all the other hands that you raise in the first place short of AA or KK. You could just as easily have 88-TT, AT+, JTs+. Most players won't cap most of these hands either, but will usually cap with QQ+.

bernie · #60 03-01-2007, 08:20 PM

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There are other reasons to simply call the 3-bet. It adds deception to you hand.

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Actually, imo, it shows your hand a bit more than disguises it. Qs and Js are the most common pocket pair hands played this way.

After all, what are they putting you on when you cap it? Probably not QQ or JJ since those hands your opponents would most likely just have called the 3 bet.

b

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QQ & JJ may be often played this way, but so are all the other hands that you raise in the first place short of AA or KK. You could just as easily have 88-TT, AT+, JTs+. Most players won't cap most of these hands either, but will usually cap with QQ+.

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Except with those other hands, you're not likely to come alive on a J high flop. Capping it puts your range as a bit wider when that type of flop hits.

Most of your passive opponents also wouldn't raise with 88-TT, AT, etc... You have to see what they're seeing. Which is alot of only what hand they'd play that way. Which is another reason not to wait to the turn when you flop a set. Because that's what they'd do.

b