An “Only in LA” Story - The Dealer Stall and the $1 pot!

[ThaHero]

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good story, the rake here sucks and I hope one day someone opens a percentage rake casino... but
this is the only 1/2NL game ive heard of around town that has a 100$ cap. also in cardplayer I saw an ad saying that for just 5 hours of poker play you get a free room. why is this place not packed?

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Have you seen the rooms? No, have you seen the elevators? Don't get me wrong. I was there for a Madden tournament and we had a private poker game. Decent dealers, great floorman(young guy, forgot his name), quick cocktail waitresses(though not very cute). They are just fighting an uphill battle. I signed up for a players card and didnt even play an hour and got a free meal. And I think I have another waiting. They have very good deals.

[RR]

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Around 2002 CA State was modified and allowed the clubs to drop from the pot but "modify" or "adjust" the drop on no flop. Most clubs went to this method (dropping a dollar on no flop) although the Commerce took a full drop on a blind steal for a few years (in other words open raise in 3/6 holdem and watch $3 + $1 get dropped i.e. the entire amount of the blinds).

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This happened specifically in Jan 2002. I took off from Dec 25, 2001 until Feb 1, 2002 and it occurred while I was off.

[kyleparks]

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After getting partially busted holding AK against Seat 1 holding Ax (hitting the turn three outer after my flop overbet) in a later hand from this thread I decided to relax by dropping by a struggling casino to visit an old friend working as a host of sorts.

Since the nightly tournament hadn’t finished the re-buy period the club had only three small cash games going with open seats everywhere. My friend “GI” was in a 40-100 spread buy NL game with 1-2 blinds. So I bought a rack and took a seat next to him so we could talk shop a bit. At this point the game had GI, one real loose donkey who was running hot, perhaps one or two sort of normal customers, and what appeared to be four or five props or quasi-props. Not a game to make money, but sometimes just playing small and chatting/relaxing can be +EV for personal reasons.

After playing for a while and watching/playing several small to medium sized pots, the hot, loose donkey went for a walk. I took my $2 BB anyway; I wouldn’t want to hurt my friend’s game by taking an out button when the game needed my “action”. Plus I already ordered cocktails and couldn’t leave. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

So with my menacing presence in the BB a woman in the cutoff open limps for $2 and the button and SB fold. Sometimes we LA players go for the chop/collection save after an early limp is uncalled but I was curious how a game with 1/2 blinds and the infamous LA drop would play out. I also wondered if a late limp might mean a big hand. Plus with cocktails coming it just seemed like goofy-fun to play against the single late limper (generally we LA players discourage with peer pressure any sort of cutoff or button open limp in small games).

Anyway, after the flop the pot contains five $1 chips. But the dealer has to take a $3 collection and $1 jackpot drop so he goes into a stall of sorts; even a dealer hates to see the coming collection fiasco clearly visible to someone (me) whom he probably assumes is a potential new, badly needed customer. Meanwhile the props roll their eyes and look bored; they are starting to understand that most of their salary is disappearing down the box and only the strong survive.

So I stall too just to bust balls and help the props (I’ve been a prop and managed props) and finally after an embarrassing delay the dealer breaks down and takes the $1 jackpot drop. He still has to take the $3 collection drop as required by procedure but tries to stall again, probably hoping for a pot size bet by me or a pot sized bet by my opponent after my check. Then the remaining $3 drop wouldn’t be so darn obvious. But I decide to keep putting on the pressure and continue to stall. So the dealer finally, with lowered eyes and shame penetrating to the depth of his soul takes three more dollars out of the pot and puts them down the box. Now one lonely, isolated $1 chip remains in the pot. But it is a beautiful $1 chip.

Now that the pot is correct I have two cards and check. The woman at the other end of the table tries to make a pot size bet of $1 but the prop sitting next to her points out that with a $2 big blind, the minimum bet is $2. So she corrects her bet to $2. This is an over-bet so I need a big hand here.

Since I normally don’t talk during the play of the hand (I’ve been voted the most boring player by announcer Dave Tuchman on Live @ Bike) I decided a little 1 /2 NL game is a good time to experiment so I stroke my chin and say, “I don’t think I can call a bet twice the size of the pot.” But I shuffle my stack around a bit to consider. The props are content; my stall slows down the rate they are losing money. There are no action players in the game to upset. After a few more seconds of WSOP final table type contemplation I fold. I had garbage. My opponent takes in a $3 pot, $4 of which is her own money.

Welcome to LA B&M. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

~ Rick


PS This casino (Crystal Park) has to be commended a bit for being the only one in LA having a no flop, no drop policy (not even a jackpot drop). The game got pretty good later when the props were replaced by young kids who seemed like they were out to have fun. I booked a nice win for a small game despite drinking my limit of three cocktails. The place is a pretty pleasant place to play small games.


PPS I wrote this for fun. Later I might make another attempt at presenting my arguments for a serious, probably legal solution to this “drop on flop” problem if enough of you guys are interested.

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this is why i play at oceans 11 in oceanside.

[SpleenLSD]

Funny. And I thought the FL $2 drop on $5 was bad.

[Rick Nebiolo]

B&M Mods,

I'm bumping this thread because it needs to survive the soon to come software upgrade.

Note that later in the thread problems with and possible solutions to the infamous LA method of "taking a full drop on the flop no matter how small the pot" are discussed.

For the first time there is a possibility that the right person will read this; i.e., someone who may be able to pioneer a needed change within Los Angeles County.

~ Rick

[andyfox]

I remember (sort of) the first hand hold-em hand I ever played. I was a draw and lowball player, hold'em being illegal in California, as it apparently qualified as "stud-horse" poker. Then the rules were changed and so we had hold-em.

Knowing nothing about the game, I went to try some 3-6. First hand, in my big blind, there is one limper and the small blind folds. I check my option with Q-J. Flop comes Q-Q-J. Pretty good flop for me. I notice they take some chips out of the pot for the drop as I bet. My opponent calls. Turn is a J. I bet, he calls. River is a blank, I bet, he calls, I show, and he shows a superbly played Q-6 and we chop the pot.

When they divide up the pot, I notice that I have less than I had at the beginning, the drop being bigger than the small blind we chopped up.

So I flopped the nut full house, didn't lose the pot, and lost money.

Another day in paradise.

[Rick Nebiolo]

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When they divide up the pot, I notice that I have less than I had at the beginning, the drop being bigger than the small blind we chopped up.

So I flopped the nut full house, didn't lose the pot, and lost money.

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Lucky you play higher limits these days; the infamous drop method doesn't hurt or look as bad with much higher blinds.

But imagine what it's like to prop the 3/6 to 8/16 level at a certain card club where these days they routinely stuff seven or eight tighish props into a game they hope to start (even without a significant board or incoming traffic).

Imagine what an unwary customer would think after playing in such a game. Would he likely come back?

~ Rick

[JJT]

Why is the LA County Sheriff so powerful in all of this? I thought casinos were state-regulated.

[Dennisa]

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Why is the LA County Sheriff so powerful in all of this? I thought casinos were state-regulated.

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Rick,

Thats a fantastic question.

HP is under Inglewood Police.
Normandie and Hustler are under the Gardena Police Control
The Bike is City of Bell Gardens Police.

Commerce is controlled by LA County.

Im not sure about the police departments for CP/ HG and Club Caribbe.

[Rick Nebiolo]

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Why is the LA County Sheriff so powerful in all of this? I thought casinos were state-regulated.

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Rick,

Thats a fantastic question.

HP is under Inglewood Police.
Normandie and Hustler are under the Gardena Police Control
The Bike is City of Bell Gardens Police.

Commerce is controlled by LA County.

Im not sure about the police departments for CP/ HG and Club Caribbe.

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Keep in mind I never had direct contact with a clubs legal department or the LA County sheriff (or any police department for that matter; I'm crime free at both ends [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]).

I do remember that when a club like Hollywood Park tried to institute a live drop on the button back in 1995 it only lasted a few weeks. When the LA County Sheriff came back from vacation he insisted it had to be a dead drop (or so I was told).

Over the years as I worked in and out of the clubs I was always informed that the LA County Sheriff's interpretation of state law was very strict. I assumed this was why a live drop on the button was allowed during that period in places like Northern California but not allowed in LA. And of course some places do in fact have "drop on qualifier" meaning they have either gotten a favorable interpretation or are operating under the radar.

Since Jan 1989 (or 1990) there is no place in California where can the drop be based on pot size or a percentage of pot size; that's clearly illegal.

Hope this makes it up; for some reason these recent posts didn't appear on my other browser.

~ Rick