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| View Poll Results: Staying in touch with friends | |||
| Make a concious effort to stay in touch with them |
   
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10 | 12.05% |
| Every once in a while when the urge hits I'll give 'em a call |
  
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35 | 42.17% |
| Almost never, I see them when I see them |
  
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38 | 45.78% |
| Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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#51
12-11-2006, 04:47 PM
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Re: Forum Political Identity Poll
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] mutualist, anarchist who opposes capitliasm but supports private property based on occupancy and use. [/ QUOTE ] How do you determine whether and to what degree someone is using the land? [/ QUOTE ] i'd have to read up a bit more on this point, but i think as long as the property is used for work or shelter that's fine. but some property is abandoned for a long time, or forever and at that point someone else should be able to live there. 
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#52
12-11-2006, 04:54 PM
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Re: Forum Political Identity Poll
[ QUOTE ]
i'd have to read up a bit more on this point, but i think as long as the property is used for work or shelter that's fine. but some property is abandoned for a long time, or forever and at that point someone else should be able to live there. [/ QUOTE ] It's important to add that a significant point of divergence between most ACists and most mutualists is that most mutualists also hold that land cannot be legitimately rented, since then the landlord is no longer using the land and is hence basically taking money from the occupant when the land isn't even his or hers.
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#53
12-11-2006, 05:33 PM
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Re: Forum Political Identity Poll
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] i'd have to read up a bit more on this point, but i think as long as the property is used for work or shelter that's fine. but some property is abandoned for a long time, or forever and at that point someone else should be able to live there. [/ QUOTE ] It's important to add that a significant point of divergence between most ACists and most mutualists is that most mutualists also hold that land cannot be legitimately rented, since then the landlord is no longer using the land and is hence basically taking money from the occupant when the land isn't even his or hers. [/ QUOTE ] uhhg, just when I was starting to like mutualism.
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#54
12-11-2006, 05:41 PM
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Re: Forum Political Identity Poll
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] mutualist, anarchist who opposes capitliasm but supports private property based on occupancy and use. [/ QUOTE ] How do you determine whether and to what degree someone is using the land? [/ QUOTE ] i'd have to read up a bit more on this point, but i think as long as the property is used for work or shelter that's fine. but some property is abandoned for a long time, or forever and at that point someone else should be able to live there. [/ QUOTE ] I'm pretty sure that Costa Rica's land ownership is similar to this, I think over there if you do not occupy your property for 6 months (?) or somehting then others can move in and claim the property. This is why some surfers who own houses along the coast pay locals to live on the property when they are back in the States.
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#55
12-11-2006, 05:47 PM
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Re: Forum Political Identity Poll
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uhhg, just when I was starting to like mutualism. [/ QUOTE ] While (as a strict Lockean in terms of property rights) I share your distaste for this particular tenet, I hope this doesn't lead you to dismiss the whole of mutualism, for there are a lot of good ideas there as well. And while absentee landlordism may be a point of contention among ACists and mutualists, I think there is growing consensus that both models may be able to exist side by side in a stateless society (just as traditioanl 'corporations' and worker-owned cooperatives may exist together).
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#56
12-11-2006, 05:48 PM
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Re: Forum Political Identity Poll
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] i'd have to read up a bit more on this point, but i think as long as the property is used for work or shelter that's fine. but some property is abandoned for a long time, or forever and at that point someone else should be able to live there. [/ QUOTE ] It's important to add that a significant point of divergence between most ACists and most mutualists is that most mutualists also hold that land cannot be legitimately rented, since then the landlord is no longer using the land and is hence basically taking money from the occupant when the land isn't even his or hers. [/ QUOTE ] It sounds like mutualism draws on labor-mixing arguments. Would you agree, nietz? If not, how does what was once one person's property become another's without the first's consent?
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#57
12-11-2006, 06:03 PM
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Re: Forum Political Identity Poll
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] uhhg, just when I was starting to like mutualism. [/ QUOTE ] While (as a strict Lockean in terms of property rights) I share your distaste for this particular tenet, I hope this doesn't lead you to dismiss the whole of mutualism, for there are a lot of good ideas there as well. And while absentee landlordism may be a point of contention among ACists and mutualists, I think there is growing consensus that both models may be able to exist side by side in a stateless society (just as traditioanl 'corporations' and worker-owned cooperatives may exist together). [/ QUOTE ] The landlord is analagous to the capitalist. It's "pay me rent or freeze to death on the street" just like "let me take part of what you produce or you'll starve to death with no job."
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#58
12-11-2006, 06:05 PM
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Re: Forum Political Identity Poll
[ QUOTE ]
i'd have to read up a bit more on this point, but i think as long as the property is used for work or shelter that's fine. but some property is abandoned for a long time, or forever and at that point someone else should be able to live there. [/ QUOTE ] There has to be a matter of degree though. For example, if I'm using a piece of land as a shop to make my widgits in, but I'm only there once a week (or I am perfectly capable of making widgits in my own house that I'm occupying as a dwelling), who decides whether the land is being "used" or not?
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#59
12-11-2006, 06:06 PM
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Re: Forum Political Identity Poll
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] i'd have to read up a bit more on this point, but i think as long as the property is used for work or shelter that's fine. but some property is abandoned for a long time, or forever and at that point someone else should be able to live there. [/ QUOTE ] There has to be a matter of degree though. For example, if I'm using a piece of land as a shop to make my widgits in, but I'm only there once a week (or I am perfectly capable of making widgits in my own house that I'm occupying as a dwelling), who decides whether the land is being "used" or not? [/ QUOTE ] i would expect democractically within the community. There are plenty of issues we both face where there is no clear inflection point, not a big deal.
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#60
12-11-2006, 06:14 PM
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Re: Forum Political Identity Poll
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i would expect democractically within the community. There are plenty of issues we both face where there is no clear inflection point, not a big deal. [/ QUOTE ] But this just boils down to a complete absence of private land. If the social norm is such that the allocation of land to individuals is decided democratically, then an individual does not own land in any meaningful sense; the majority always has eminent domain. "Private" land in such a system would be illusory; land can only appear to be private if the majority have elected for the "owner" to have it.
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