How much is a degree from a low level law school worth? (and more ?s)

[XXXNoahXXX]

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Noah-

Where are these huge start-up costs incurred?

I'm not thinking about doing this, BTW. Just curious.

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Even just starting you are going to need the normal office expenditures of office space, furniture, etc. Add in advertising because you need to get people in the door. You're going to need a secretary. Subscription legal research tools are also expensive.

I mean, if money wasn't an issue, an intelligent person that had gone to law school and passed the bar could make it work, but its definitely an uphill climb. (Also the whole money not being an issue probably isn't true for most).

Maybe this doesn't add up to much more than starting your own company in another field, but obviously going out on your own is never easy.

[savageorc]

First, find out if you really like the law as much as you think you do. Try to get a job as a paralegal. You'll at least get some legal research experience and have something to put on your law school app. that demonstrates interest. It isn't exactly like being a lawyer, but close enough to give you a pretty good idea. You'll also get to see what a day in the life is really like. Also, if they really like you, you might be able to get a job from them once you have your JD.

Second, to answer you main question, it depends on what you want to do. Where you go doesn't matter as much at smaller law firms. You'll make less, but you won't have to work as many hours either. If you want the big bucks at a big firm, then it definitely matters.

[adios]

Not a lawyer myself. My brother has a law degree from the University of Miami (Fla) and did his undergrad work at Columbia in NYC. He was a lawyer in a sole proprietership, a partner in a small firm and worked for a large firm. I think he liked litigating but had trouble working with people. As a sole proprieter he had some difficulties in collecting legal fees and such. He doesn't practice law anymore FWIW. IMO it's not a profession for everyone and you need to find your niche in the law.

[gusmahler]

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Noah-

Where are these huge start-up costs incurred?

I'm not thinking about doing this, BTW. Just curious.

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Even just starting you are going to need the normal office expenditures of office space, furniture, etc. Add in advertising because you need to get people in the door. You're going to need a secretary. Subscription legal research tools are also expensive.



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And don't forget malpractice insurance. I've heard it's hella expensive (though I actually have no idea how much it actually is).

[slush fund]

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Anyone,

Let's say someone wanted to just start a private practice (be an ambulance chaser, do wills, etc..) Forget the amount of hours per week or pay level. Does anything matter other than being admitted to the bar?

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Unless you plan on taking over someone elses practice or have a lot of legal experience, it is VERY difficult to just come straight out of law school/bar passage and do this. Obviously some people do it, just "hang a shingle" as they say, and go on your own. The problems are obviously huge startup costs, lack of any client base or name recognition. If you have the money and the drive, you can make it happen, but it will be a rough road for the first few years.

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i believe i can answer questions about this because this is exactly what i did. i have never had a job working for anyone else and am approaching my fifth anniversary being admitted to the bar this april and now own a firm with approximately 25 employees.

i graduated undergrad at U of Florida and went to law school at Stetson which is a small private school in Florida with a good reputation for litigation because of their trial team, but nothing special otherwise. Finished right at about dead middle of the class but i come from an entrepreneurial family of small business owners so i always knew that my grades didn't matter as i was going "hang my shingle" and work for myself.

started off by myself with about $11,000 in savings and just leased an office in another persons suite. hustled business, anything i could get and was making $3000 a month after i paid the bills. after six months, got a secretary but i realized that being a general practitioner was never going to make me any serious money. the lifestyle was great working about 25-30 hours a week but the ceiling was right there in my face.

being in the law world you learn about certain practices that are factories whether its bankruptcies, foreclosures, title work, traffic tickets whatever that are more like business services disguised a law practices. nothing can make one despise the law more than going to law school and being a business man, that was going to be my answer.

did some research, got a partner and borrowed $50k to start. we didnt take a paycheck for 8 months and started working in a spare bedroom. first two years were hell. 6 and 7 day weeks were norm which was especially tough for a lazy person like myself, but i have a great partner who is very ambitious who pushed me to put in the time.

after 3 and a half years things have calmed down and a lot is on auto-pilot. i work from 9:30-7 mon- thur and leave at 5 on fridays. saturdays are rare unless something has to get done. go to court two or three days a week and in the office the rest. we also go to about two conferences per year for clients or other things in our area. i have about $110,000 in student loans that i consolidated so my payment is $500 per month for about 26 more years.

we pour a lot of money back into the company whether its employees, computers, marketing. as our business mentor Big Tom Callahan says, you're either growing or dying, there ain't no third direction. can't say that i love the work,and its a lot of stress for someone in their early thirties, but i am very grateful for the opportunity.

as long as you pass the bar, the sky's the limit for hungry sharp people and it doesn't matter what school you go to. i'll be happy to answer any questions i can about starting their own firm right out of law school but i certainly don't claim to know it all as we make mistakes and are learning all the time as we continue to try to grow our shop.


CLIFF NOTES: smoke weed at no name law school and still pass bar, work for myself, make good monies

[beset]

I've written long posts about this before so I don't feel like repeating myself too much. However, while it is quite clear that a degree from a top tier school has much much more objective value J.D's from second tier schools combined with top honors/law review/etc are still very valuable, especially in the region where the school is located. If BIGLAW is the goal though, going to a second tier school is very risky unless you have a very high level of confidence in your ability to completely own the rest of the student body the first year.

[kyleb]

I plan on attending a joint MBA/JD program in the future and don't particularly care what grades I get. However, I plan on parlaying these degrees into better learning opportunities for the businesses I run and to gain credentials to get myself in the front office of an MLB team.

It all depends on what you want to do with the degree.

[onoble]

Niss and others,

Ok. I have the opportunity to go to a 3rd tier school with a large scholarship (2 years free) or instead attend a 2nd tier school at full price... what has a higher EV?

Basically I am between Hofstra (scholarhsip) and Brooklyn/Cardozo... and I want to practice in NYC.

[Hey_Porter]

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I've written long posts about this before so I don't feel like repeating myself too much. However, while it is quite clear that a degree from a top tier school has much much more objective value J.D's from second tier schools combined with top honors/law review/etc are still very valuable, especially in the region where the school is located. If BIGLAW is the goal though, going to a second tier school is very risky unless you have a very high level of confidence in your ability to completely own the rest of the student body the first year.

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It always makes me laugh how every law message board is full of posters talking about Biglaw, what they need to do to get there, anecdotes from people who are there, etc., yet such a small percentage of graduating attorneys actually end up in Biglaw. There needs to be WAY more discussion on what you do when you can't get into/don't want to get into biglaw (similar to this thread).

[Hey_Porter]

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tier 4's?

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Roger Williams, Cooley, etc. If you go to one of these for a year and get all As, and you have experience and good undergrad record, and a compelling story, you can transfer up.

Basically, you will need to be the best at your lower tier school and make it obvious to the admissions people at the higher ranked school that you belong there.

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Anecdotal, but I know of two Cooley grads, younger people (read: no "life experience), mid-level grades who each transferred to schools in the 50-100 category.