Official argue about all things Barry Bonds GOAT thread

[owsley]

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This is not a complicated question. How likely is it that you think Bonds used PEDs or steroids?

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It's very unlikely that he used steroids in violation of the rules of baseball, given that no credible evidence exists to prove it.

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What do the rules of baseball and whether he violated them have to do with the probability that Bonds used PEDs?

[RedBean]

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AFAIK you cant really argue about facts. They are indisputable.


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You must not have read the other 1,307 thread about Bonds on 2+2 in the last two years.

Especially considering in the last week you asserted as "fact" that Bonds admitted use under oath, and that not all players were tested....both of which were false.

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So yes, the argument should center around what we kinda sorta might maybe know.

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I don't understand your desire to have an "argument" over differing opinions.

They're opinions, and they are neither right are wrong.

Several people have disputed facts, and have been wrong, but all we can sit here and do with our own opinions is run around in circles and disagree.

It's doesn't amount to a hill of beans, in the end, which is why I've been rather consistent in my desire to keep the discussion primarily centered around the facts, especially those that not everyone may be entirely aware of or agree with.

For example, up until a few days ago, you didn't even know that all players were tested, and you mistakenly assumed that only a few of them were.

Likewise, you asserted as fact that Bonds had admitted use in his testimony, when the fact is that he hadn't.

All in all, you can form your opinion however you want, but if your doing it on facts that aren't true, then your doing yourself a disservice, and if you want to get your facts straight, then maybe I can be of some service.

If you want to just go on with an deadset opinion, and make up the facts along the way to justify it, and ignore the facts...then I can't help you.

No more, no less.

[RedBean]

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What do the rules of baseball and whether he violated them have to do with the probability that Bonds used PEDs?

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Likewise, what does the probability that Bonds used PEDs have to do with rules of baseball and whether or not he violated them?

[reo]

He is the greatest baseball player of all-time.

Barry Lamar Bonds - - - !> GOAT

[MikeyPatriot]

OMG, WTF does it matter how RedBean would weight the percentage of Bonds having used steroids? Jesus Christ. Even if RB thinks he used PEDs a majority of the time, it doesn't matter because it wasn't a punishable offense by MLB. STFU about it already.

[owsley]

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What do the rules of baseball and whether he violated them have to do with the probability that Bonds used PEDs?

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Likewise, what does the probability that Bonds used PEDs have to do with rules of baseball and whether or not he violated them?

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You are extremely determined not to answer the question that was asked. Do you think you have answered the question or made an honest attempt to?

The probability of Bonds using PEDs doesn't necessarily have anything to do with whether or not he violated the rules of baseball. How does that make it not an important question? edit- Maybe some people think it is important and others think it is meaningless, there is no right answer to the question but that answer doesn't change what the probably of Bonds using PEDs was.

[MikeyPatriot]

owsley,

Why does RB have to answer it? Does it prove something?

[RedBean]

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OMG, WTF does it matter how RedBean would weight the percentage of Bonds having used steroids? Jesus Christ. Even if RB thinks he used PEDs a majority of the time, it doesn't matter because it wasn't a punishable offense by MLB. STFU about it already.

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Agreed.

But much like the real issue for the media was never steroids, and instead was "getting Bonds"....I think in our limited group here, the issue isn't even with debating facts about Bonds anymore......but instead some folks are focusing it on *me*....because I've destroyed every attempt at factual argument regarding Bonds violating a baseball rule.

[owsley]

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owsley,

Why does RB have to answer it? Does it prove something?

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RB knows a lot more about Bonds than me, and I am just curious how likely those who are familiar with his career and life think it is that he used PEDs. I just want to find out more about him. RedBean has made hundreds of posts about Bonds on this forum so I thought he would be a good person to ask.

[RedBean]

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The probability of Bonds using PEDs doesn't necessarily have anything to do with whether or not he violated the rules of baseball. How does that make it not an important question?

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Because my primary interest as it relates to Bonds is discussing whether or not he violated baseball rules.

Ultimately, I think that is everyone's underlying ultimate interest in him.

It's an obvious leading question that is being floated to project someone else's own personal beliefs on what consititutes cheating, in complete disregard for the rules as they were written.

Granted, if he had chosen the vocation of garbage collector, I doubt we'd have much interest in the probability that he took steroids.

We're here talking about it because some people think Bonds cheated at baseball, and some people think he didn't.

And likewise, as it doesn't necessarily relate to whether or not he violated baseball rules, I'm just as much concerned with whether or not he puts cream in his coffee, or if he puts butter on his grits.

I really don't care, in short...what baseball players do when they are on their own time, as long as they aren't breaking the rules of the game and they show up and perform on the field.

And that is exactly what Bonds has done....played by the rules, and performed on the field.