Should I CB? A Quiz.

[Dan Bitel]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe it's a full-ring thing; at FR they seem less likely to call SB with just broadway, so I'd put my chances of being ahead and pushing them out with a c-bet at very good.

[/ QUOTE ]

if you're ahead, remind me again why you want to push them out?

[pdoran10]

1.Yes
2.Yes
3.Yes
4.Yes
5.No
6.Yes
7.No
8.No

[ChipStorm]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe it's a full-ring thing; at FR they seem less likely to call SB with just broadway, so I'd put my chances of being ahead and pushing them out with a c-bet at very good.

[/ QUOTE ]

if you're ahead, remind me again why you want to push them out?

[/ QUOTE ]
"Your hand isn't as strong as it may appear. What worse hand will call? This hand has the potential for reverse implied odds to kick your ass."
-- 4_2_it, December 6, 2006

[limit refugee]

Pre peeking:

No's to 5, 6, and 8.
5 although it prolly missed them, I want my free card.
6 not to get blown off my hand.
8 oop; too many possibilities for callers; if i hit my A or K on the turn, I'm dealing with an overly large pot.

[orange]

tl;dr

[xGREGORx]

on hand #6...

we might have the best hand, but there are still worse hands that will call bets - an unpaired Q and the flush draw. Shouldn't we charge them to draw and get some value along the way?

[Pokey]

1. Yes. I'm not *thrilled* c-betting here, but the K is scary and my hand could easily still be best. Besides, it's a rare heads-up pot that you would not c-bet, and without any reads this ain't it.

2. Yes. Heads-up with a paired board, the odds are slimmer than usual that the board hit our opponent. Pick up the pot and move on.

3. Yes. Heads-up on the scariest board ever you've got to fire after your opponent checks. Fold to any check-raise in a heartbeat, but scoop the pot a ridiculously large fraction of the time.

4. Yes. This is the easiest c-bet in the bunch. You have added padding from a third player and you have as many as 18 outs to a winner. Even discounting against unlikely stuff, I'd say you've got at least 15 outs, meaning you're +EV getting all-in at even odds. If a villain wants to go to war, I'm three-betting all-in. If they want to fold, I'll scoop an extra-large pot into my belly.

5. Often, but far from always. This is a bet/fold, not a bet/call or bet/raise. Checking behind lacks much benefit because we're not really going to improve to a winner very often; I'd prefer to bet it and hope to scoop up this orphaned pot. Villains with a 2 or a 3 won't be confident about the hand, and will often walk away from the best hand. We have little reasonable hope of winning at showdown, so we might as well take one last shot at the gold. Besides: it's not like we're giving up much if we have to fold to a check-raise.

6. Yes, but not c-betting isn't bad. I love combo hands, and here I've got a mediocre pair, a decent straight draw and a backdoor mediocre flush draw. Multi-way I'm checking behind, but heads-up I'll try to pick up the pot. If I'm check-raised, I can fold to a strong bet without feeling TOO miserable, and I can call on implied odds if the bet is small enough. The board here is scary enough that I expect to win outright very often, and I'm not passing up my chance.

7. No. Yucky: if I were in position I'd be tempted to c-bet. If I had J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] I'd be tempted to c-bet. If I were heads-up I'd be tempted to c-bet. With the right read I'd be tempted to c-bet. As it stands, I'm usually giving up.

8. No. This hand is infinitely pukey. I've got three outs to a winner with redraws for flush drawers. The board overlaps SIGNIFICANTLY with the range of my opponents, and I'm not heads up. I give up, checking and folding to a bet.

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AJ exaggerates when he says that a good number would be four "yes" answers and four "no" answers. I think c-bets are a powerfully important part of our arsenal and I think they work much more often than we think. Most notable is #5, which many people consider a clear check-through because our hand is crap: that's true, but consider a few other points:

- Both of our opponents have had a chance to bet and have passed on this. While this could be a cleverly-laid trap in the form of a check-raise, it's more often a pure miss.
- Pocket pairs reraise just as often as overcards. Our c-bet on such a dry board will look like a pocket pair to scared opponents who are out of position, and they will let us have the pot quite often.
- Even if our opponents put us on overs, they'll put us on STRONG overs. AK is crap, but it still beats J8: if our opponents are convinced that our crap beats their crap, they'll still fold.
- A c-bet gives us more folding equity if we manage to hit an ace or king on the turn, or if the board pairs on the turn. It will also disguise the bejeezus out of our hand if we miracle up a 4. I like buying more folding cards for the turn and I like cloaking my miracle outs.

[Shoot59]

I would c-bet Hands 1,2,3,4,6
I would check hands 5,7,8

no time to elaborate

[RAHZero]

Hand 1: Yes, he can really only call with a flush draw or King here.

Hand 2: Yes, villain is unlikely to have hit that flop. If he did, he'll let us know and we can get away cheap.

Hand 3: Yes, rep the ace.

Hand 4: Yes, gutshot + NFD, flop is unlikely to have hit him. Build a pot in case he has a lower FD.

Hand 5: No. Multiway, our hand has little value, we have a gutshot + BDFD. I find it very difficult to push out multiple villains with a c-bet at these stakes.

Hand 6: Yes, not a bad spot for us with OESD and bottom pair, we can likely take a free card on the turn if he calls.

Hand 7: Yes, this is a must. We likely still have the best hand, and cannot afford to give free cards here.

Hand 8: Would if it was HU, not multiway.

[Hail Eris]

[ QUOTE ]
on hand #6...

we might have the best hand, but there are still worse hands that will call bets - an unpaired Q and the flush draw. Shouldn't we charge them to draw and get some value along the way?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is how I see it, too. Also if we check behind and wake up when one of our transparent outs hits, our hand will be face up. However, if we bet this flop, as we would with any strong made hand, villain may be tempted to bluff when the draw completes.

Finally it's worth pointing out that at uNL there are many villains who will call a flop bet with a naked Ace.

As far as smaller pairs go, we do want them to fold, since they're not putting any $$ in unimproved.