600 party I 4bet loose squeeze with AQ, and he [censored] shoves

[GGG65]

[ QUOTE ]
if you can actually find a hand vs a good player that 5bet shoved worse than AQ w/ 0 FE then he was either on monkey tilt or you have been 4bet repotting it w/ garbage enough to make him do this, in which case you are playing those hands unprofitably as well.

[/ QUOTE ]
Unless you account for the fact that the villian might have (or think he has) a good read on YOU. For example, if he thinks that you likely have AK/AQ or a low pair, he could easily push with something like 10-10 or 9-9... if you fold he's happy, if you call with AK then he still got his money in for good pot odds (and likely a small fav).

Personally it smells to me like he has AK here, but obviously as you know if he has anything other than AA you have the odds to call due to pot size.

Of course, I just lost a preflop 4-bet push with KK against AA, so what do I know.

[killphilNI]

Raze,

Stack/bet sizes suck for 4 betting to less than a shove. If you decide to 4 bet, just shove because you can never 4 bet/fold here. Once you put in more than 1/3 of your stack you have to call shoves. Don't worry that he'll only call with the top end of his range, if you're right about his range being wide then you'll take down an already sizeable pot quite often uncontested.

The other option is to call and shove over his c bets. This is good too because he has to fold on so many flops and you will pick up his c bet quite often.

Fwiw, i think 4 betting to $180 is pretty bad too, either as a bluff or for value with our bigger hands. It just invites the villain to call with a wide range.

[catcher193]

[ QUOTE ]
just shove because you can never 4 bet/fold here

[/ QUOTE ]
disagree

[ QUOTE ]
Fwiw, i think 4 betting to $180 is pretty bad too, either as a bluff or for value with our bigger hands. It just invites the villain to call with a wide range.

[/ QUOTE ]
Let him call with a wide range of hands, playing 4 bet pots is one of my big strengths.

[killphilNI]

Catcher, my point was that you couldn't fold once you have put in a 2.5x or greater reraise. But if you're making it 2x then I suppose you can fold.

If you want the villain to call with a wide range then you are really value betting rather than ever bluffing which is pretty sick and I'm sure has its merits, but must be difficult to play postflop, unless your plan is just to rarely fold. I like to bluff here sometimes though, given that villain has a wide range, and so I like a slightly bigger 4bet.

[jlkrusty]

[ QUOTE ]
... obviously as you know if he has anything other than AA you have the odds to call due to pot size.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is incorrect.

Here's the size of the pot if he calls:

$676.05 + $676.05 + $18 (from the small blind) - $3 (rake) = $1,367.10.

Here's how much it costs him to call:

$675.05 - $282.00 = $394.05



Here's the equity he needs to have a +EV call:

$394.05 / $1,367.10 = 28.82%



Now, if for some reason you think he is super tight on his 5-bet all in, then you would not have the right odds to call:

41,095,296 games 0.005 secs 8,219,059,200 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 24.420% 23.05% 01.37% 9472768 562640.50 { AsQd }
Hand 1: 75.580% 74.21% 01.37% 30497247 562640.50 { QQ+, AKs, AKo }



To make the call, you need to put your opponent on a wider range than what's above. I think you can put him on a wider range and personally I would call. But, to simply state that you have to make this call unless you put him on AA+ is incorrect.

[Darkfolder]

$370? wtf

[illuminati]

4-bet/folding is [censored] gross 99% of the time.

[Bakes]

are you kidding me with this thread

[SEABEAST]

basically you can never fold AQ vs grafkaliostro in a squeeze situation preflop

so you have to decide whether you want to 4bet small and give him the illusion of fold equity to open up his range (snapcall his shove)

or you want to just shove over the squeeze and maybe fold out his AQ/22-99 type hands that are doing fine when they get it in (he will probably only call TT+ AK when its 500 more to go)

although to be honest just calling and then shoving most flops is a pretty good option too.

point is, dont fold

[WelshChip]

ALL IN