Play a Hand With the Masters #1 Pre-Flop - Page 6

zoobird · #51 09-19-2005, 09:51 AM

My initial thought after I read the hand was to bet 450. This was obviously wrong, since the whole purpose of betting was to gain fold equity and with such a small bet pot odds would force him to call with whatever he's got. So I'll say bet 600.

I have a question though. A number of people have said that he could have limped with a low pair. Isn't that a mistake? I thought with low pairs he either wants to be heads up (which limping isn't likely to accomplish) or to play for set value against a bunch of opponents (which won't happen with so many people having folded ahead of him). Are the stacks here so large that the implied odds would make it worth his while to play for set value even against 2 or 3 opponents?

bugstud · #52 09-19-2005, 10:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
My initial thought after I read the hand was to bet 450. This was obviously wrong, since the whole purpose of betting was to gain fold equity and with such a small bet pot odds would force him to call with whatever he's got. So I'll say bet 600.

I have a question though. A number of people have said that he could have limped with a low pair. Isn't that a mistake? I thought with low pairs he either wants to be heads up (which limping isn't likely to accomplish) or to play for set value against a bunch of opponents (which won't happen with so many people having folded ahead of him). Are the stacks here so large that the implied odds would make it worth his while to play for set value even against 2 or 3 opponents?

[/ QUOTE ]

making is 450 here is actually fine, I would almost either for that or 750 and not in between. Pot size manipulation and all.

woodguy · #53 09-19-2005, 10:03 AM

Because you have the button, limping behind isn't bad, but you really don't want to call a raise if either blind raises, so I put in a raise to ~600 to go.

If the blinds decide to raise my raise I can put them on a narrower range of hands than if I just limped.

I want to take the lead in the hand as well because I will win more pots with cont-bets with AJ than actually smacking the flop.

Regards,
Woodguy

rustyboy · #54 09-19-2005, 10:52 AM

I like Woodguys line. If I am really far behind here, a reraise should come out and show itself here. Plus anything that might push MJ out of the hand is a good thing. A smooth call scares me somewhat though. It doesnt really help limit the hand range, it only makes the decisions on the later streets more difficult. I throw up in my mouth a little if the flop is ragged and its checked to me, because a nice checkraise is coming to my continuaiton bet more than likely.

Shorty35 · #55 09-19-2005, 10:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Because you have the button, limping behind isn't bad, but you really don't want to call a raise if either blind raises, so I put in a raise to ~600 to go.

If the blinds decide to raise my raise I can put them on a narrower range of hands than if I just limped.

I want to take the lead in the hand as well because I will win more pots with cont-bets with AJ than actually smacking the flop.

Regards,
Woodguy

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said. And I didnt even detect a Canadian accent.

A_PLUS · #56 09-19-2005, 11:09 AM

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I want to take the lead in the hand as well because I will win more pots with cont-bets with AJ than actually smacking the flop.

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This is a very good point. Especially with a hand like AJ. If you dont define your hand as 'good', it makes it much harder to win the pot unimproved. AJ isnt a good drawing hand, and if anything has poor implied odds.

zoobird · #57 09-19-2005, 11:19 AM

Hey that's really interesting. Are you saying that as a general rule, the benefits of late position apply mostly to drawing hands?

zoobird · #58 09-19-2005, 11:20 AM

Care to elaborate? I'm not sure I understand why this would be the case.

Also, I'm still hoping someone will answer my question about why opponent limping with a low pair wouldn't be making a big mistake.

AJFenix · #59 09-19-2005, 11:27 AM

I like the raise to 600 because CO limp range here is huge, and this bet has the most ways of succeeding + getting you the most information possible. You generate the most FE preflop, and if you take the pot down right here, thats perfectly fine. If you get smooth called, you can make a continuation bet on most flops, and take the pot down that way often enough, and if called re-evaluate. You can hit the board hard, and play it from there. You can hit the board, but he may play back at you, and you can re-evaluate from there. You have a deep stack, and can easily get out of it if need be. Or you can get re-raised pre-flop, and have no problem laying the hand down. You have position, and likely the best hand, the 600 raise here is my choice.

Dirtsqrl77 · #60 09-19-2005, 11:29 AM

I have a few follow up questions:

Suppose you have raised 600 pre flop and you get a call from the CO. What hands are we willing to represent post flop.

#1 - If the flop comes low are we making a move when checked to us?

#2 -I know there are many variances of potential flops, but I would also like to here how one would deal higher coordinated flop. Something like A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I his pre flop call has made this board as scary as it is good, thoughts?

Maybe it is too much for on post but I will throw it out there. These two situations would be foolowing the suggestions of limping.

#3 A low uncoordinated flop. What's your play when a) checked to you? b) Half sized pot bet into you??

#4 How do you handle a flop like ( A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ) when a) checked? b) 1/2 pot bet into you??

Hope these are appropriate for this. I love this idea btw, very interesting to hear from players I respect a lot.

P