We haven't won yet: latest (10/19) cliff's notes on AP scandal

[Synergistic Explosions]

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I'm sure Annie doesn't know the details of what's going on to make that statement. Of course this doesn't happen all the time in live games.

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Yes, it does. Haven't you heard of marked cards? I said something similar a few times.

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I have heard of marked cards actually. A clear view of everyones hole cards as was the case at AP is slightly different I think.

[Spiff]

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I'm sure Annie doesn't know the details of what's going on to make that statement. Of course this doesn't happen all the time in live games.

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Yes, it does. Haven't you heard of marked cards? I said something similar a few times.

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I have heard of marked cards actually. A clear view of everyones hole cards as was the case at AP is slightly different I think.

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unless they where MARK(ed) SEIF(ly)
gn

[suzzer99]

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New article on pokerpages.com:

http://www.pokerpages.com/poker-news...oyee-30036.htm

Nothing new, except this quote from Annie Duke:

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Annie Duke, widely recognizable pro and the top female professional poker player in the world, notes to the online community that there is no need to fret in the wake of this news.

"This kind of stuff happens in live games all the time," says Annie. "You just don't hear about it as much. That's why it's important for players to know how to spot cheating. As for this situation, what's important is that there are sites out there like 2+2 and P5s which will actually look out for you and FORCE the poker sites to acknowledge deceit, then step up and do the right thing--while all named pros and official organizations are sitting on their hands."


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Really lame.

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She's on the UB payroll right?

[pzhon]

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"This kind of stuff happens in live games all the time," says Annie. "You just don't hear about it as much. That's why it's important for players to know how to spot cheating..."

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What is relevant is that it is important for the site to be able to spot cheating. These test should be running whether or not there are player complaints, but they better be used when there are complaints. It is much easier for the site to test for this type of information leak than for the players. Absolute Poker failed in its responsibility to do that, even when the cheating was ridiculously blatant so that it was convincing to almost all serious poker players just from the hands that made it to showdown.

Absolute Poker repeatedly lied and stonewalled about this, tried to cover things up (through changing registration information just after it was posted here, and by asking sites to remove unflattering threads), and threatened some of those who were speaking the truth with legal action (in AP's statement and Seif's comments--Seif has appeared to state the official AP line throughout this scandal). They said things were impossible that were obviously possible. If they didn't know something was wrong, their security department is not functioning, and any executive responsible for that incompetence should be removed.

Of course, you can't expect an unbiased statement from a spokesperson for UB/AP.

It is, nevertheless, a bad idea for them to try to say that it's the players' responsibility to detect cheating. Although that position might seem to help them deflect responsibility in the short run, if everyone were to believe them, it would greatly decrease the amount of play. People would be too suspicious to play for substantial stakes, and they would get swamped with false claims of cheating against players who were just lucky, unlike this case.

I'd be surprised if other sites which take the responsibility of holding other people's money more seriously didn't have automated detection systems that would have identified these cheaters long before the player complaints. I'd bet that PokerStars will mention that they implemented such a system years ago when this scandal starts to cool off, and Steven Levitt mentioned working on such a system for a poker site. Apparently, pretending to take security seriously was much higher on Absolute Poker's priorities than actually ensuring it.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Everyone:

We also had a conversation today with a representative of AP. It appears to me that they are moving in the right direction. We'll know more when their statement comes out.

Best wishes,
Mason

[GaryTheGoat]

Mason:

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We'll know more when their statement comes out.

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This afternoon?

Edit: Maybe this evening?

gg

[N 82 50 24]

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Mason:

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We'll know more when their statement comes out.

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This afternoon?

Edit: Maybe this evening?

gg

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The following was part of an email that I receive from the AP person that I talked to earlier.

"We are hoping to get a statement out tonight.
If we dont we will on Saturday - we need to make sure it answers all of the questions with absolute clarity."

[apefish]

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we need to make sure it answers all of the questions with absolute clarity."

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Clear as mud so far guys. That's Absolute clarity in this instance.

[nath]

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we need to make sure it answers all of the questions with absolute clarity."

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Clear as mud so far guys. That's Absolute clarity in this instance.

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lol, I was going to say, do they mean "one hundred percent clarity" or "the level of clarity displayed by absolute poker to date"?

[GaryTheGoat]

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Mason:

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We'll know more when their statement comes out.

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This afternoon?

Edit: Maybe this evening?

gg

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The following was part of an email that I receive from the AP person that I talked to earlier.

"We are hoping to get a statement out tonight.
If we dont we will on Saturday - we need to make sure it answers all of the questions with absolute clarity."

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lol at bolded.

All the questions that we have raised or given the answers to?


gg