USS Liberty: Accident or Cover-up?

[tame_deuces]

Actually Israel did attack Egypt first, but Egypt had kicked out the UN, put an army on the border and called for the Arab nations to wage war on Israel, so attacking 'first' is stretching it - at that point they did the only thing they could do.

Not that they were without guilt in the conflict in total, both sides bear the burden when you look at the history leading up to it.

Figuring out who is 'most right' is pointless, leave it at the logical conclusion that they were all wrong and it will be a far more healthy view.

[Goater]

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Keeping secret the concurrent massacre of Egyptian POWs a few miles away. (I doubt this one.)

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This is a unproven allegation that has recently resurfaced for political reasons in Egypt. Whilst its possible that Israeli soldiers did execute enemy soldiers (happens in most wars) this case is certainly not proven. (irrelevant to this discussion, but the arab countries definitely did execute israeli soldiers in many cases.)

[Goater]

Im well aware of the history and events of the conflict - it was a definite and fully justified pre emmptive attack by Israel. I just had not heard claims that Israel said it was attacked (militarily) first.

As to the "most right" question, I agree that both sides should shoulder some blame, but I disagree with the generalisation that they were both wrong. Israel had very little choice in the days before the start of the official war and knew it was facing an existential fight against the huge mass of arab countries that were determined to see its total destruction.

Dont want to derail this interesting thread though so I wont go any further into this here.

[PLOlover]

interesting point on this

a) the adl, an american organization, does everything it can to support a foreign government when that foreign government attacked, killed, and covered up (including trying to strafe and kill every survivor, so that the at some point they had to know it was an american ship and *then* made the decision to kill every american in order to cover it up) the incident.

b) you can't blame a foreign government for pusueing its own interests, including bribing foreign poiliticians.

c) you can blame domestic american organizations for supporting a foreign government, especially when that foreign government is killing americans, especially when that domestic organization is supporting the very act of the foreign government killing americans.

d) if it were the muslim defense league instead of adl, then look what the muslims are going through, harassment, renditioning, asset seizure, etc., and the main difference is that the muslim mosques and mdl have *denounced* things like 911 and cole bombing, etc. , while adl defends israel killing americans.

[Goater]

are you replying to me? I dont think I made any points that relate to your reply....

also, i have no idea what you are talking about. what does the adl have to do with this topic?

[PLOlover]

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are you replying to me? I dont think I made any points that relate to your reply....

also, i have no idea what you are talking about.

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no just kinda my sum up point.

[Goater]

ah... ok. no problem...

[tame_deuces]

[ QUOTE ]
interesting point on this

a) the adl, an american organization, does everything it can to support a foreign government when that foreign government attacked, killed, and covered up (including trying to strafe and kill every survivor, so that the at some point they had to know it was an american ship and *then* made the decision to kill every american in order to cover it up) the incident.

b) you can't blame a foreign government for pusueing its own interests, including bribing foreign poiliticians.

c) you can blame domestic american organizations for supporting a foreign government, especially when that foreign government is killing americans, especially when that domestic organization is supporting the very act of the foreign government killing americans.

d) if it were the muslim defense league instead of adl, then look what the muslims are going through, harassment, renditioning, asset seizure, etc., and the main difference is that the muslim mosques and mdl have *denounced* things like 911 and cole bombing, etc. , while adl defends israel killing americans.

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Well, this argument is incredibly speculative, including the specifics of the air to sea combat incident. And maybe not the least, you just broadened to the scope into becoming a bordercrossing conspiracy and naming a specific organization on slim evidence.

And I'm sorry to say this is the kind of thing that often plagues discussions like these - people are looking for patterns and reasons, and when you look for a specific pattern in a massive pool of information you will tend to find it.

[PLOlover]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, this argument is incredibly speculative, including the specifics of the air to sea combat incident. And maybe not the least, you just broadened to the scope into becoming a bordercrossing conspiracy and naming a specific organization on slim evidence.

And I'm sorry to say this is the kind of thing that often plagues discussions like these - people are looking for patterns and reasons, and when you look for a specific pattern in a massive pool of information you will tend to find it.

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no it's just that when I googled uss liberty why last night the two interesting links that popped up were
a) the one I posted
b) an adl link that said it was anti semitic to talk about the incident.

[PLOlover]

one more
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ussliberty.html
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Israel attacked the USS Liberty using UNMARKED AIRCRAFT. This is the single fact which proves Israel knew exactly who they were attacking. Israel's story is that they thought USS Liberty was an Egyptian ship and therefore a legitimate target of war. Were that true, there would be no reason to attack a supposedly Egyptian ship with unmarked aircraft. The only possible reason to use unmarked aircraft to attack the ship is that Israel knew it was an American ship and intended to sink it, then to blame the attack on Egypt.

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