Alexi Lalas: MLS on Par with Premier League

[JaredL]

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I think this is the main reason English teams traditionally underperform when they play in continental competitions.

[/ QUOTE ] 3 teams in the semis of CL this year......

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That's why I said traditionally.

Italian teams have played in the final 25 times, 20 for the Spanish. Only 14 for English sides. That's only one more than the Bundesliga which is considered significantly worse. In terms of finals, English teams are closer in appearances to the Dutch and Portugeese leagues than the Spanish and Italian leagues. To be fair, they have won it a total of 10 times, which is only one less than the Spanish and Italian teams.

For semifinal appearances, Spanish clubs have been there 37 times, the Italians 31, and the English just 29. To be honest before making this post I thought this gap would be bigger. Still, English teams have not done as well.

In any case, my point is that nearly every year lately English teams seem to underachieve, especially the top teams.

[JaredL]

Curious about this I looked at semifinal appearances in the CL in the last 20 years here are the counts by country (I'm
counting from wikipedia so it could be a bit off):
Spain: 15
Italy: 14
England: 11
Germany: 9
France: 7
Netherlands: 5
Portugal: 4

Last 10 years:
Spain: 12
England: 10
Italy: 8
Germany: 5
France: 2
Ukraine: 1
Portugal: 1
Netherlands: 1

Last 20 years finals (appearances - titles)
Italy 13 - 6
Spain 8-5
England 4-2
Germany 4-2
Netherlands 3-2
Portugal 3-1
France 3-1
Romania 1-0
Serbia 1-1

Last 10 years finals (appearances - titles)
Spain 6-4
Italy 5-2
England 4-2
Germany 3-1
Portugal 1-1
France 1-0


So the last 10 years it would appear that overall English teams have done reasonably well overall despite some disappointments like both Manchester United and Chelsea last year.

[KDawg]

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I think this is the main reason English teams traditionally underperform when they play in continental competitions.

[/ QUOTE ] 3 teams in the semis of CL this year......

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That's why I said traditionally.



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english teams were barred from all european competition for a good 5-6 years because of the heysel disaster, this also set back english football on the continent a good 5 years when they were allowed back into europe. before heysel, 4 different english clubs had won the Champions cup and english clubs had done well in the Fairs/UEFA cup (and they would've done better if it weren't for some questionable officiating) and also in the cup winners cup.

WHen the english clubs got banned from europe (like the italian clubs now should be) there were several clubs that were poised to make serious runs for european glory. Everton had a great team in the mid to late 80s, but never got the chance, and livercrap most likely would've won at least one more European Cup. ManU would've had a great shot at the Cup Winners Cup because they were great at making cup runs when they weren't doing well in the league. There were also significant british players that played in england that went to the continent during that time so that they could play in europe, so losing those players also affected english teams in a bad way too when they were let back into europe.

It's hard to make that kind of comparison w/o mentioning the english club ban that screwed up english football in europe for a good 10-12 years

[KDawg]

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Curious about this I looked at semifinal appearances in the CL in the last 20 years here are the counts by country (I'm
counting from wikipedia so it could be a bit off):
Spain: 15
Italy: 14
England: 11
Germany: 9
France: 7
Netherlands: 5
Portugal: 4

Last 10 years:
Spain: 12
England: 10
Italy: 8
Germany: 5
France: 2
Ukraine: 1
Portugal: 1
Netherlands: 1


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these numbers are pretty impressive for england, especially considering that 3 or 4 of those years going back 20 years, english clubs weren't even allowed in euopean football.

The last ten years is a bit more reflective IMO. Granted, English clubs have had problems closing when they have gotten to teh semis

[matt85]

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I was under the impression that the Brazil league was pretty weak since so many top Brazilians play in Europe. Is league on the rise?

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You'll find a lot of those youngsters who are bought at an early age are loaned out to Brazilian teams to continue development. It's a fascinating league and you'd be amazed at how much these players are actually paid. Don't forget that some players do decline the chance to play in Europe.

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I can't watch south american leagues, every single game has a "all star game" feel to it, horrible defense and offensive players who try to pull some crazy move every time they get the ball.
There are plenty of talented young players but that doesn't make it watchable for me.

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I may get [censored] for this from all the premiership fans, but this is similar to the reason I don't think the premiership is the top league. Admittedly I don't watch a ton of matches, but the premiership feels to me like what you've described here without the crazy moves.

When I watch highlights shows a lot of the goals seem to be terrible defense more than good work by the attackers. This I find strange since the defenders tend to get away with more physical play than in other leagues.

I think this is the main reason English teams traditionally underperform when they play in continental competitions.

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I have to disagree with almost all of this. Outside of Italy the PremierLeague is probably the best, defensively, in the world.

MLS looks like its coming on but I think he's overdoing the hype if he genuinely think any MLS team could live with ANY Premiership team. Thats what makes the premiership so good because ANYBODY can beat anybody on any given day. Boro for example over the past 2 years.. Beat Man utd 4-1, Chelsea 3-0, draws away at Old Trafford/Emirates. It still doesnt change the fact were a pretty mid-tier premiership club it just adds to why the PremierLeague is the best league in the world because anybody can get a result and that makes it exciting.

[JaredL]

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Curious about this I looked at semifinal appearances in the CL in the last 20 years here are the counts by country (I'm
counting from wikipedia so it could be a bit off):
Spain: 15
Italy: 14
England: 11
Germany: 9
France: 7
Netherlands: 5
Portugal: 4

Last 10 years:
Spain: 12
England: 10
Italy: 8
Germany: 5
France: 2
Ukraine: 1
Portugal: 1
Netherlands: 1


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these numbers are pretty impressive for england, especially considering that 3 or 4 of those years going back 20 years, english clubs weren't even allowed in euopean football.

The last ten years is a bit more reflective IMO. Granted, English clubs have had problems closing when they have gotten to teh semis

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As I said when I checked the numbers English teams were better than I expected, in particular in the last 10 years. I guess I was focusing in on a few recent failures.

Considering them on the whole I think some teams doing better than you would have thought they would do based on league results (Liverpool this year and 2 years ago, Leeds a while ago, Arsenal last year) has made up for top teams underperforming a bit. This has been true of Italy as well as Juve has largely dominated the Serie A but not done very well in the Champions League.

I guess it's probably all just variance.

[AJW]

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I was under the impression that the Brazil league was pretty weak since so many top Brazilians play in Europe. Is league on the rise?

[/ QUOTE ]

You'll find a lot of those youngsters who are bought at an early age are loaned out to Brazilian teams to continue development. It's a fascinating league and you'd be amazed at how much these players are actually paid. Don't forget that some players do decline the chance to play in Europe.

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I can't watch south american leagues, every single game has a "all star game" feel to it, horrible defense and offensive players who try to pull some crazy move every time they get the ball.
There are plenty of talented young players but that doesn't make it watchable for me.

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I may get [censored] for this from all the premiership fans, but this is similar to the reason I don't think the premiership is the top league. Admittedly I don't watch a ton of matches, but the premiership feels to me like what you've described here without the crazy moves.

When I watch highlights shows a lot of the goals seem to be terrible defense more than good work by the attackers. This I find strange since the defenders tend to get away with more physical play than in other leagues.

I think this is the main reason English teams traditionally underperform when they play in continental competitions.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to disagree with almost all of this. Outside of Italy the PremierLeague is probably the best, defensively, in the world.

MLS looks like its coming on but I think he's overdoing the hype if he genuinely think any MLS team could live with ANY Premiership team. Thats what makes the premiership so good because ANYBODY can beat anybody on any given day. Boro for example over the past 2 years.. Beat Man utd 4-1, Chelsea 3-0, draws away at Old Trafford/Emirates. It still doesnt change the fact were a pretty mid-tier premiership club it just adds to why the PremierLeague is the best league in the world because anybody can get a result and that makes it exciting.

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It’s becoming less and less true the money from the champion’s league has thrown the balance off. FA cup giant killing seem to becoming a thing of the past, Look at the increase in the number of teams doing the double in the last decade, Arsenal’s unbeaten season a few years ago. Id like to see a fairer division of money across the whole football league Scarborough FC has just been dissolved after 128 years and Leeds united nearly bankrupted them selves chasing a champions league place.

[O Fen�meno]

This is kind of off topic but relates to the MLS.
Why dont the USL and the MLS combine and make one giant conference with like 20-24 teams like the European leagues? I think having the two conferences in the MLS is the wrong way to do it

[Bremen]

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This is kind of off topic but relates to the MLS.
Why dont the USL and the MLS combine and make one giant conference with like 20-24 teams like the European leagues? I think having the two conferences in the MLS is the wrong way to do it

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$$$

[JaredL]

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This is kind of off topic but relates to the MLS.
Why dont the USL and the MLS combine and make one giant conference with like 20-24 teams like the European leagues? I think having the two conferences in the MLS is the wrong way to do it

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The challenge for the MLS is that they need to balance pleasing those of us that are avid fans of soccer and follow some European leagues with drawing in new American fans. Every American sport has the conference setup with the playoffs so they went with that. I don't like it but then again I'm one of the people that would like to see promotion and relegation in baseball.

I also think they should use the standard league and (open) cup system instead of playoffs but having a championship game is probably a big draw and there are probably a lot of people that watched it that don't follow the league very much. Having the cup final be say the Rochester Rhinos against Real Salt Lake won't exactly draw in a huge viewing audience.