|
|
#51
08-12-2007, 09:11 AM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Spots we rarely think about
[ QUOTE ]
2. i want them to know i have a weak hand when i check the flop (weird?) [/ QUOTE ] Is to induce a 'bluff' on the turn? Also - opponent is passive, doesn't that mean that he will not bluff the river if we bet flop/check turn very often ? Therefore, if you bet and fold out all the unpaired, no draw hands you win the pot. If he calls with draws and misses by river you probablly get to see a showdown with a pair (because he might not bluff river), or of course he calls, ends up winning and all you lose is your c-bet, and you never call if he bets (unless you catch a 2). 
|
|
#53
08-12-2007, 10:35 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Spots we rarely think about
[ QUOTE ]
In <u>NLH:BB</u> I classify this as both a type 5 flop and also a check under the guise of equity advantage. [/ QUOTE ] Alright, I have to ask this, what's NLH:BB? I searched...
|
|
#54
08-12-2007, 10:51 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Spots we rarely think about
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] In <u>NLH:BB</u> I classify this as both a type 5 flop and also a check under the guise of equity advantage. [/ QUOTE ] Alright, I have to ask this, what's NLH:BB? I searched... [/ QUOTE ] bobbo's upcoming book maybe? there was a fair bit of discussion about it a while ago but i havent seen anything about it for a month or two. not sure if its still happening but if it does i will be first in line to get a copy!
|
|
#55
08-12-2007, 10:58 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Spots we rarely think about
1 barrel > 0 barrels >> 3 barrels >>>> 2 barrels
|
|
#56
08-12-2007, 12:16 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Spots we rarely think about
Rob,
Very nice post[s].... The major difference you and I have in this spot is that you say, 'yay lets play poker here' and I say, 'I would like to do everything in my power not to play poker here'. As you pointed out, 22 more often then not has less equity then a 'losing hand'. So this is a spot where I gain more out of the times he folds to a c-bet then when I let a card peel and either get outdrawn or outplayed (bluffed) on the turn. Depending upon the caliber of player, you will win this hand on the flop enough to show a profit in the hand (and since this hand is in the ssnl I figure the caliber to be minor). I am not sure I can say the same for checking and waiting for the turn. Your points are much more well suited to a higher limit game in my opinion. This 'spot' is not a constant that plays the same at all levels. Precisely because of the lack of aggression and c/r bluffs, a c-bet will show a profit whereas giving a free card is often perceived as weakness (which it is by your own admission) and can actually create tougher competition because of it (allowing them to bluff at you). Overall, I think this spot is marginal either way, meaning one won't show a glaring profit/loss over the other. Also, just to reiterate, your posts were extremely well done, concise, and extremely educational. Was that reference of NLH:BB a refence to a book [of yours]? If so, please elaborate (or PM me) in regards to it.
|
|
#58
08-12-2007, 01:51 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Spots we rarely think about
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] also, in the rare event you do get called "BY WORSE" remember that "worse on the flop" is a relative term, since the "best hand" on the flop does NOT necessarily equate to the MOST equity, which is BY FAR the most important facet of a hand. (obviously, more important in omaha, but certainly very relevant to holdem) Are you referring to the likelihood of being bluffed off of the best hand? great post btw, as usual. [/ QUOTE ] thx - no, i mean that on that flop, even a hand like 6x (T6o, for example) has an equity advantage over 22, so its actually not in 22's best interest to put anything in on the turn, even though a pair is technically the best hand and "better" then ten high. [ QUOTE ] You are leaving out balancing here. If you're always checking this flop with marginal hands with showdown value and betting with monsters or air, then it becomes very easy to exploit and very quickly heads up. If you check behind here with QQ/A8/Ahxh/etc then I'd be more inclined to agree with checking, but on a flop this wet and easy to get value on - I would almost never check those. [/ QUOTE ] 1. balancing is irrelevant 2. i want them to know i have a weak hand when i check the flop (weird?) 3. i actually will check some of those hands you mention, as well. 4. more important, you call oop, this flop comes, are you check folding a pair? what is the weakest draw you'll c/r or c/c, lets ignore the possibility of a bet size read (ie you think full pot is strong from a pfr and half pot is weak) [/ QUOTE ] 1/2. Balancing is EXTREMELY important. You don't have to be facing a world beater for him to realize every time you're checking behind on a wet board, it's with a mediocre hand you just want to showdown. He can easily then valuebet you to death, or just draw cheaply depending on his holdings. 3. Checking behind any of those hands I mentioned is pretty bad. There are just sooo many cards that either ruin all of your action, or mean you're beat, either way you're really killing off a huge chunk of those hands potential value by checking, especially when there's a very low chance of this guy check raising worse - ever. 4. We're not OOP, making this a somewhat irrelvant tangent. And if you'd apply what I say towards villain, it'd make even less sense - as the read is that "villain is loose passive, will sometimes call 2 barrels with A-high, you know the type." which is not exactly how I play HU. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
|
|
#59
08-12-2007, 02:37 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Spots we rarely think about
[ QUOTE ]
to the checkers: if we check here....are we folding to a turn lead? [/ QUOTE ] I guess this depends on the turn card for me. There are a lot of middle cards that I'll just give up to a turn lead cuz they'll hit so much of his range if we're not already crushed by a higher pair. I guess the best card that I'm most willing to call a bet on turn would be a blanksuit K and a few others. I dunno, I can't articulate this very well. I'd like to hear from bobbo or isura as to their calling standards on a turn lead when we checked flop.
|
|
#60
08-13-2007, 05:41 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Spots we rarely think about
Overall, there are spots where I would like to play poker and there are spots where I find it in my best interests to 'pick better spots'. This is one of those spots. Not the part about me holding 22, nor the part about playing a LAP dude, nor the part about the board being highly coordinated.....but the combination of all of them.
Give me KJo or A2o or even J3s and I would be that much more inclined to 'play poker'. Then I would have more options on how to approach the hand. With 22 I feel I will be guessing more then dictating.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
