New Fight Question

[kdotsky]

Consider the difference between a very good amateur boxer or low level professional and a random guy that has never trained in striking.

The random guy would last seconds. I don't think anybody can disagree with this.

Now consider the difference between a world class boxer and an average professional boxer.

The average professional would last longer against the world class boxer than the random guy against the average professional. Again, I don't think anyone can disagree with this.

So, the difference between trained, but not world class boxer and a random person is much greater than the difference between the averge professional and world class boxer.

In the early UFCs, you had the low level boxers. Their boxing advantage over Royce Gracie, who couldnt punch or kick worth a damn, was huge. But Gracie, who was small and not very athletic, dominated the UFC for the first several years (until people started doing what he was doing -- then the better athletes started winning).

[Blarg]

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I almost thought you were serious for a minute there. Professional wrestler, joke exhebition match, case closed!

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Apparently a man famous for his ego, Ali, would take an exhibition match with the intent of looking like a pussy for millions to see.

Anyways I'm done with you smash, you're too stupid to debate on the actual points of my argument and resort to sarcastic comments as if they help your cause.



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I'm really lost as to how this fight made only one of them look like a total pussy.

[MuresanForMVP]

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I almost thought you were serious for a minute there. Professional wrestler, joke exhebition match, case closed!

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Apparently a man famous for his ego, Ali, would take an exhibition match with the intent of looking like a pussy for millions to see.

Anyways I'm done with you smash, you're too stupid to debate on the actual points of my argument and resort to sarcastic comments as if they help your cause.



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I'm really lost as to how this fight made only one of them look like a total pussy.

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agreed,both of them looked like pussies. but Ali looking like a pussy is a much bigger deal than that no-name wrestler looking like one (which he did)

[kdotsky]

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agreed,both of them looked like pussies. but Ali looking like a pussy is a much bigger deal than that no-name wrestler looking like one (which he did)

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Yeah, obviously the wrestler doesn't want to box with Ali and Ali knows not to go to the ground. But the no-name wrestler was at least offensive in cautiously trying to take Ali down. Ali did nothing. And the wrestler eventually did take him down but it was broken up for some reason (it would have been over otherwise).

[BCPVP]

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And the wrestler eventually did take him down but it was broken up for some reason (it would have been over otherwise).

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It was broken up because Ali got elbowed in the head. It didn't look like it was on purpose.

[GiantBuddha]

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Started by Art Davie & Rorion Gracie - WOW Promotions as a tournament to find the world's best fighter, no matter their style, the UFC was to be based upon a version of Brazilian vale tudo fighting.

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A quick list of things which are banned:
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Fouls
The Nevada State Athletic Commission currently lists the following as fouls: [15]

Butting with the head.
Eye gouging of any kind.
Biting.
Hair pulling.
Fish hooking.
Groin attacks of any kind.
Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent. (see Gouging)
Small joint manipulation.
Striking to the spine or the back of the head. (see Rabbit punch)
Striking downward using the point of the elbow. (see Elbow (strike))
Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.
Grabbing the clavicle.
Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
Stomping a grounded opponent.
Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck. (see piledriver)
Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area.
Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent.
Spitting at an opponent.
Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent.


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[GiantBuddha]

UFC does little to "prove" who would win a real fight. It was created to make money and promote BJJ and the Gracies.

link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimat...g_Championship

[kdotsky]

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Started by Art Davie & Rorion Gracie - WOW Promotions as a tournament to find the world's best fighter, no matter their style, the UFC was to be based upon a version of Brazilian vale tudo fighting.

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A quick list of things which are banned:
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Fouls
The Nevada State Athletic Commission currently lists the following as fouls: [15]

Butting with the head.
Eye gouging of any kind.
Biting.
Hair pulling.
Fish hooking.
Groin attacks of any kind.
Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent. (see Gouging)
Small joint manipulation.
Striking to the spine or the back of the head. (see Rabbit punch)
Striking downward using the point of the elbow. (see Elbow (strike))
Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.
Grabbing the clavicle.
Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
Stomping a grounded opponent.
Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck. (see piledriver)
Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area.
Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent.
Spitting at an opponent.
Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent.


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Most of those rules were not in effect when UFC started.

[kdotsky]

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UFC does little to "prove" who would win a real fight. It was created to make money and promote BJJ and the Gracies.

link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimat...g_Championship

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I don't see your point at all. Does little to prove? Of course we can't prove anything, but UFC is the closest evidence we have.

They started it to promote BJJ? So what -- of course they did. They felt it was most effective in real fights so they wanted to show it and benefit from it spreading. To do this they created a scenario with almost no rules and put their money wear their mouth was. And it worked. Their motives don't nullify the results.

[GiantBuddha]

A few random thoughts:

1) It is not trivially easy to take someone to the ground if they know this is your goal, especially if they are a trained fighter.

2) It is not trivially easy to knock someone out or to kill them in one shot.

3) Athletic ability will absolutely help you in a fight. So will skill and effective technique. Neither of these factors will completely negate the other.

4) A broad skill set is an advantage, but again will not negate all other factors.

5) Actually killing someone is different from just training to do it. I have never killed someone, nor do I wish to. I have knocked someone out and caused him to bleed profusely. I hated the guy and only later learned that he had just gotten out of jail that morning. I thought I'd be psyched to clobber him, but it turned out I felt very bad. Maybe I'm just soft, but I think this is a very relevant factor. I think the SEAL and the streetfighter have an edge in this department. But that doesn't mean it will cancel out all other factors.