Absolute Soulreading/Rigged thread #3

[DEAD ON IMPACT]

STAGE #753361340: HOLDEM NO LIMIT $30 - 2007-09-04 17:27:15 (ET)
Table: ALHAMBRA (Real Money) Seat #3 is the dealer
Seat 3 - PTOWNER ($6881 in chips)
Seat 4 - THE GRINDER ($5970 in chips)
Seat 5 - DOUBLEDRAG ($21702 in chips)
Seat 2 - DTON21 ($1110 in chips)
THE GRINDER - Posts small blind $15
DOUBLEDRAG - Posts big blind $30
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to PTOWNER [10d 3c]
DTON21 - Folds
PTOWNER - Folds
THE GRINDER - Raises $135 to $150
DOUBLEDRAG - Calls $120
*** FLOP *** [As 4h 8s]
THE GRINDER - Bets $180
DOUBLEDRAG - Calls $180
*** TURN *** [As 4h 8s] [6d]
THE GRINDER - Checks
DOUBLEDRAG - Checks
*** RIVER *** [As 4h 8s 6d] [5d]
THE GRINDER - Checks
DOUBLEDRAG - Bets $5550
THE GRINDER - All-In(Raise) $5640 to $5640
DOUBLEDRAG - Folds
THE GRINDER - returned ($90) : not called
*** SHOW DOWN ***
THE GRINDER - Does not show
THE GRINDER Collects $11758 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($11760) | Rake ($2)
Board [As 4h 8s 6d 5d]
Seat 2: DTON21 Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 3: PTOWNER (dealer) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 4: THE GRINDER (small blind) collected Total ($11758) All-In HI$11758) [Does not show]
Seat 5: DOUBLEDRAG (big blind) Folded on the RIVER


I have no idea what he was thinking in this instance. If he was cheating he could missed grinder having possible s8t and went with one of his ridiculous overbets.

Another possibility is he typed in the wrong number and added a 0. But I think this is refuted when after he folded he wrote "wow that was a horrible bluff attempt"

What really gets me is how does he not call 90 into a 11k pot...

[Chump Change]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe also an analogy to another sport--"This is like a player who can't get a hit in A ball suddenly leading the league in hitting in the majors."

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm grunching and I don't know if the letter has been sent but this is gold. Analogies, analogies, analogies is key.

All the letters up to this post I quoted are great, well written letters but terrible for this as they're not dumbed down nearly enough.

[A2steaksauce]

[ QUOTE ]
Just wondering, does anyone have an estimate of how much money is actually involved here, as far as winnings of the alleged scammers?

[/ QUOTE ]
Well witnesses reported that Doubledrag dumped between $200k and $300k to Romnaldo, and he was still able to dump roughly $25k to the AP regulars after that. Two other cheaters won the $1k buyin tourney, that's another $60k. I don't know how much graycat won, but it was probably in the same ballpark as doubledrag. a rough estimate would be between 400k and 600k

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just wondering, does anyone have an estimate of how much money is actually involved here, as far as winnings of the alleged scammers?

[/ QUOTE ]
Well witnesses reported that Doubledrag dumped between $200k and $300k to Romnaldo, and he was still able to dump roughly $25k to the AP regulars after that. Two other cheaters won the $1k buyin tourney, that's another $60k. I don't know how much graycat won, but it was probably in the same ballpark as doubledrag. a rough estimate would be between 400k and 600k

[/ QUOTE ]

AP has indicated there was another account involved as well, FWIW (5 total).

[suzzer99]

I don't like the baseball analogy because there's way less variance in hitting a major league fastball than in poker. The great thing about poker is Joe Shmoe can beat Phil Ivey on any given day.

I think a better analogy might be something like a 120 bowler bowling 10 perfect games in a row.

[suzzer99]

[ QUOTE ]
just had a +33k session on absolute without anyone dumping to me!!! i think, at least

[/ QUOTE ]

Scab.

[sethypooh21]

maybe I'm overestimating our own importance, but the worst thing, still is that there has been no official response from AP yet.

Even an 'interesting, we're looking into it, we'll let you know.' would be better than the drivel that have come out of the CS monkeys

[microbet]

[ QUOTE ]
I have played 15/30nl and 200/400 limit with both Doubledrag and Steamroller I was amazed and confused how both players and their manic play was consistently beating me, but also the top limit players and nl players on AP. I called Uneducated from AP to ask him if he felt any suspicion on these players ability to play so bad and win every session. He also had the same suspicion and was actaully considering writing a post on how they could be consistently winning with how horrid and wreckless their play was.
I am stuck 23k to Doubledrag, 11k to Steamroller.

I will post a few hands that really justify some of the betting and calling patterns Doubledrag made in the games i've played with him but also the games i've watched him play in. Playing online poker for 4 years now i've seen so many hands at all levels and haven't seen such perfection of calling sick hands, overbetting weak hands, and value betting hands that make you really wonder.

STAGE #753375692: HOLDEM NO LIMIT $30 - 2007-09-04 17:44:57 (ET)
Table: ALHAMBRA (Real Money) Seat #5 is the dealer
Seat 5 - DOUBLEDRAG ($22373 in chips)
Seat 6 - THE GRINDER ($11554 in chips)
Seat 2 - DTON21 ($1760 in chips)
Seat 3 - PTOWNER ($3055 in chips)
THE GRINDER - Posts small blind $15
DTON21 - Posts big blind $30
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to PTOWNER [5d 10d]
PTOWNER - Raises $90 to $90
DOUBLEDRAG - Raises $240 to $240
THE GRINDER - Folds
DTON21 - Folds
PTOWNER - Calls $150
*** FLOP *** [6d Qc 8d]
PTOWNER - Checks
DOUBLEDRAG - Bets $150
PTOWNER - All-In(Raise) $2815 to $2815
DOUBLEDRAG - Calls $2665
*** TURN *** [6d Qc 8d] [2s]
*** RIVER *** [6d Qc 8d 2s] [5c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
PTOWNER - Shows [5d 10d] (One pair, fives)
DOUBLEDRAG - Shows [Kd 3c] (king high)
PTOWNER Collects $6153 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($6155) | Rake ($2)
Board [6d Qc 8d 2s 5c]
Seat 2: DTON21 (big blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 3: PTOWNER won Total ($6153) All-In HI$6153) with One pair, fives [5d 10d - P:5d,B:5c,B:Qc,P:10d,B:8d]
Seat 5: DOUBLEDRAG (dealer) HI:lost with king high [Kd 3c - P:Kd,B:Qc,B:8d,B:6d,B:5c]
Seat 6: THE GRINDER (small blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS


This hand is just sick...Doubledrag supposedly made around 300k in the week or so he was playing on ap during his run and I find it mind boggling anyone can make this call. I saw him make this call 3 times. All three times his opponent was either on a flush draw or bluff and he called with ace high or king high as in the hand. What really gets me is on all 3 hands he was ahead making the call disgusting in the sense that he can only have the ability to be able to see his opponents hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

?

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the baseball analogy because there's way less variance in hitting a major league fastball than in poker. The great thing about poker is Joe Shmoe can beat Phil Ivey on any given day.

I think a better analogy might be something like a 120 bowler bowling 10 perfect games in a row.

[/ QUOTE ]

You could extend the baseball analogy I used earlier by saying that IF it happened, you would know cheating (i.e., steroids) were involved, which I think is the real point here.

[Jinx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe also an analogy to another sport--"This is like a player who can't get a hit in A ball suddenly leading the league in hitting in the majors."

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm grunching and I don't know if the letter has been sent but this is gold. Analogies, analogies, analogies is key.

All the letters up to this post I quoted are great, well written letters but terrible for this as they're not dumbed down nearly enough.

[/ QUOTE ]


I think a good analogy for the statistical part is flipping coins. THere are people saying its a small sample size blah blah blah. Well, let's say you and I flipped a coin 100 times, and it came up heads 100 times in a row. And you say its rigged and I go no just small sample size. Would you believe me?