AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement

[nath]

I swear to god it's like AP sends complete idiots to these threads to clutter them and try to confuse us

I mean there's like one new utterly retarded account a day who goes and posts a ton in every thread when they don't have a clue what the [censored] they are talking about

[ikestoys]

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I know I haven't explained anything, but I'm tired of doing so over and over again. If you arent a newbie random, then you just not very smart tbh. I hope the banstick hits you again.

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So basically what you are saying is you cannot formulate a coherent argument to dismiss my assertions and theories.

Again, that begs the question of why do you may feel compelled to "explain" anything.

By the way, it is in your best interests to stop using message-board-speak. While you make think it is cute, it only serves to make you sound like an idiot.

Hope this helps.

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Sir, if you knew what sounding like an idiot was, you'd be posting a lot less. I look forward to your banning. Good Day.

[Capitola]

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What exactly is suspect in my analysis and understanding?

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I have to agree with the opinion that you sound like a pompous ass, and that a lot of what you say is inaccurate or irrelevant. You sound like some guy who just discovered online forums recently and loves to hear himself talk from a position of (alleged) authority.

By the way, there are numerous lawyers on these forums (myself included) and I haven't heard too many of them agreeing with you. And no, I'm not going to waste a lot of time telling you everything you have wrong. Now please stop cluttering up the thread as many people have asked you to do.

[Xibalba]

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I swear to god it's like AP sends complete idiots to these threads to clutter them and try to confuse us

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That'd be wickedly brilliant.


re: Mark Seif.
While it's clear from his chat and email that he is utterly incapable of writing sentences, there is no reason at this point to continue the crusade against him. Void rethorical statements explaining how nothing he says or does "proves" he didn't cheat does not prove he did.
I'd say those who think he is guilty of something (other than being perceived as a douche) have the burden of proof.

[Ps3tn0NcYk]

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So basically what you are saying is you cannot formulate a coherent argument to dismiss my assertions and theories.

Again, that begs the question of why do you may feel compelled to "explain" anything.

By the way, it is in your best interests to stop using message-board-speak. While you make think it is cute, it only serves to make you sound like an idiot.

Hope this helps.

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And I would suggest that it is in your best interests to stop using legalese when plain English can suffice. While you may think it is impressive, it only makes you sound pompous.

Having read through many of your posts in which you appear to be trying to plot a lawsuit against AP, I have to ask where you think someone would be able to bring such a case? The US? good luck with that.

Also, many of your "assertions and theories" really can be debunked by reading through the earlier AP threads. Read them if you're interested.

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Thanks for the response.

You're right, sometimes I can get carried away with the legalese. There is a fine line between elegance and arrogance. I guess I crossed that line.

So I'll start using plain English.

No, I am not plotting a lawsuit against AP. I am speculating on motives.

Guilty parties have been known to offer settlements "disguised" as refunds to ward off civil complaints. I wonder if this is AP's strategy here?

That does not mean I recommend rejecting the refund, I'm just thinking outloud if that may be the best play.

The factors to consider, IMO, are:

[1] Can AP be sued?
[2] If not, can the principals behind the firm be held accountable, and their assets in play?
[3] If so, what are the chances of "piercing the corporate veil"?
[4] If it can, what are the chances that said assets aren't hidden in the Caymen banking system, Lichtenstein or similar destinations used to "protect assets"?
[5] If not hidden, what are the chances or winning a lawsuit against the principals and/or AP?

Now these considerations need to be balanced against the settlement value provided by AP.

However I also think the integrity of online poker is at stake here and AP needs to face some sort of punitive punishment, similar to what may be levied against a public company engaged in major accounting fraud, preferrably a dissolution of the company.

For the future of online poker, I think AP needs to go down. There, I said it. While it will likely cause a short term disruption to the volume of fish (primary concern of most here, obviously), it will be beneficial to the long term viability of the game.

It really is a question of the short view and the long view.

If the short view wins out, and Absolute stays in operations with only a small financial dent, the perps are allowed to abscond with their ill-gotten gains, etc. -- I think this scandal will prove to be the tip of the iceburg. The downside risk to institutional cheating (the site itself or site owners cheating) will be minimal compared to the upside potential. Meaning it will probably attract more attempts at cheating. Which is bad for the game.

If the long view wins and Absolute folds, the perps held legally accountable for their crime, etc., while the fish pool will temporarily dry up, it sows the seeds for the pool to eventually evolve into a expansive ocean of fish as more and more are convinced the "bad apples" have been removed and the costs of cheating too great to risk doing it. It also paves the path toward regulation and legalization in the U.S.

[R*R]

Am I correct in saying that Mark Seif is mainly being accused of cheating beacuse of one session?
I would think if he was truly a cheat then there would be many more cheating sessions. Why just one? It does not make sense to me.
In addition, some of his opponents(somewhere in this forum) claim that he actually lost alot of money at Absolute. Can anyone confirm this? Does anyone have a PT database showing his stats for a reasonable period of time? It would be helpful if someone independent could post a PT database showing his stats and win/loss record. I would think if there are losses over a reasonable period of time or the wins are relatively small or unextraordinary then one could reasonably assume that he was likely not cheating. Cheating is chronic as the GRAYCAT account and his cohorts can attest and cheaters don't limit their cheating to one session.

[fleece_me]

Did Dan Druff get cheated in these games? Anyone else find it ironic that players get cheated for untold millions, have the audacity to make it known and Mark Seif's response to this travesty is to beat his war drums and rattle his sabers with overtures of legal remedies?

On behalf of everyone that's been lied to and cheated by your corporate pimps, I would like to extend to you a long overdue "[censored] you".

Hey Mark, how about an apology from you on behalf of all the people that got lied to and [censored] by Absolute Poker? It seems like the proper response from someone that is supposedly innocent and has been victimized by all of this.

[Josem]

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Am I correct in saying that Mark Seif is mainly being accused of cheating beacuse of one session?

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It is actually based on one hand. That no one has a HH for. That happened two years ago.

[R*R]

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Am I correct in saying that Mark Seif is mainly being accused of cheating beacuse of one session?

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It is actually based on one hand. That no one has a HH for. That happened two years ago.

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So that's it? The "smoke break", the "I am going to get you threat" , a big winning session, and
the "alleged" weird fold. To me, its not enough to call a guy a cheat and ruin a guy's reputation(HH or no HH as it seems it may not be available due to ABS weak or suspect internal controls). It would be nice to see a much larger database. Why don't you do that Mark?

[Josem]

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So that's it? The "smoke break", the "I am going to get you threat" , a big winning session, and
the "alleged" weird fold. To me, its not enough to call a guy a cheat and ruin a guy's reputation(HH or no HH as it seems it may not be available due to ABS weak or suspect internal controls). It would be nice to see a much larger database. Why don't you do that Mark?


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I agree with you; the problem is that there is no larger database.