Ask the 2+2 Ladies Your Questions

[Anacardo]

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Great answer Katy. That's exactly what I was looking for!

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I TOLD YOU

I [censored] TOLD YOU

YOU'RE PLAYING STRAIGHT INTO THE HANDS
OF THE FASCIST RUNNING DOGS OF THE PATRIARCHY

BUT DO YOU LISTEN TO ME OH JESUS H CRIPPLED CHRIST NO.

[Mrs. Utah]

I am curious. There are some really interesting answers coming in from very different perspectives.


My frame of reference is very different from Katy's, which is very different than Seasiren's...

Does the point of reference from which these answers come from matter to you guys who are asking?

[SoloAJ]

Not speaking for everyone, but to me, I would say it would be of a great deal of interest. Maybe that is just because I'm not as familiar (I assume) with you ladies as people like Cardo and Blarg who have been around longer in the club.

Additionally, I'm just fascinated as to why people think the ways they do. So yes. Haha.

[Sniper]

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Does the point of reference from which these answers come from matter to you guys who are asking?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mrs U, I would think it should...

[jogger08152]

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Things I DON’T LIKE but find oddly attractive about men. (keep in mind these are just some traits that I’ve found intriguing in a guy who has shown some interest in me, but not intriguing in just a random jerk.)

1. guys who are slightly cocky, calm and dismissive (oh man, i'm going to regret this. I really really HATE this kind of guy.)
2. guys who aren't over eager and who aren’t always available (obviously if they are never available it would be pretty off-putting)
3. guys who show a certain amount of interest in other girls (I really don't like this but if I’m honest about it, it does sort of make a guy sexually appealing)
4. guys who hold conservative political attitudes. I usually disagree with their views but man do I find them sexy as hell. Something about opposites attracting, you know?

Now I'm not saying I love these traits in guys, I'm saying that they can be appealing for some bizarre reason. Basically, I think I like a guy who’s not a lot like me. It adds the element of mystery and well that is what I find kind of exciting.


Hm, I'm not going to come out of this thing sounding too good am I. If you ask me about all this tomorrow I will probably want to change my answers [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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Hi Katy,

Good post. Sorry I didn't have time to respond sooner - been pretty busy between my work on Mitt Romney's presidential campaign and the hottie-chasin' I've been doin' lately, y'know? (This one fine l'il redhead especially... mmm!)

Anyway, drop me a line sometime.

Later,
J

[Mrs. Utah]

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I retain and process lots of information, and in our jargon I 'trust my reads.' I'm comfortable making decisions quickly, that in other people might constitute a rush to judgment, but that in me reflects the ability to squeeze a lot of juice from few facts. Do you hate me yet? This is confidence, and it's allegedly what all you ladies are swooning over. I would now like to refer back to an earlier and as-yet unanswered question of mine: Why does my [censored] make women so much angrier than the average dude's?

[/ QUOTE ]

Intelligence and intuition do not necessarily equate to confidence. I believe that confidence is one of the most attractive qualities that someone can have and yes, that seems to be the consensus.

Speaking to someone in a condescending (or perceived) condescending tone is frustrating. Dress that tone up from someone with a gift of language and it becomes more than frustrating.
Being face to face and reading someone's expression or even hearing something in their voice can change the perspective. Online you have to take the words as they were written even if that was not what was intended.

[Anacardo]

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Intelligence and intuition do not necessarily equate to confidence.

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I would go so far as to say that, if anything, there's an inverse relationship between the former two and the latter. Shelby Foote, the Civil War historian, once wrote that 'a touch of stolidity, even stupidity,' might be a salutary quality for a military commander. Anyone with a vivid imagination or a rich inner life can easily visualize the incredible risks they're running, the consequences of a mischance or a mistake, and the vast numbers of young men that are going to die regardless, and to maintain your composure in the face of such things is very difficult; it's often achieved by self-delusion, egomania, thickness or a combination of the three.

I can't conceive of how any smart, self-aware person can carry around a sort of generalized, universally applicable faith in themselves and in their own success. Feeling confident in your own areas of expertise, or your own particular talents, is one thing. Stubborn determination, the willingness to give your endeavors your best shot regardless of whether you think you're a 'favorite,' is another thing, and that's something I can easily see a person taking wherever they go. But the notion of 'confidence' as a nonspecific general feature of character seems absurd to me. Man is weak and mortal, and the degree to which our lives are more or less given over to random chance is pretty unnerving when you think about it. How can anybody just look that in the face and say, Eh, whatever, I rule, of course I'll come out on top?

And why is that kind of delusional egoism attractive? Me, I think humility is a highly underrated virtue. It's one you don't hear about much anymore, and it's one that, believe it or not, I think about a lot. What's wrong with admitting one's limitations, or at the very least some 'aw shucks' toe-scuffling?

This seems like another good illustration of how self-awareness and thoughtfulness can be an enormous social handicap.

[katyseagull]

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That said, is this the type of thing that I can't really expect from most 20-25 year old girls? ie, are most girls my age still probably not yet to the stage of appreciating those values and would rather go after the "distant/mean"/crazy guys? I expect the answer is, "most girls at that age are not yet at the stage VR is at, but some certainly are."

Yes?

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Solo,

I think there are so many different kinds of girls out there - shallow, vain, funny, down-to-earth, spiritual. It would seem to me that you would have no problem finding one who appreciates the values that VR appreciates. Even in high school I knew girls with all different sets of values on this issue. I find it interesting that so many guys on 2+2 think girls go for mean/crazy guys. I never knew that before and I'm interested in hearing your perspective on that because it does seem to be a common view around these forums.

What I had always thought was that we girls like guys who are confident enough to not be afraid to be assertive and go off and do their own thing and not be clingy with us. That's what I had always thought girls liked in guys. Me personally, I like guys who are kind as well as very independant [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] I haven't known any girls who would admit that they go for mean/crazy guys but I certainly find the suggestion interesting.

My advice to most people (girl or guy) is to just get out there and keep an open mind and try to meet as many people as possible. You might be convinced some girl is not your type but later you might find that she is so funny or has great values or is just incredibly deep.

[Fishwhenican]

[ QUOTE ]
I find it interesting that so many guys on 2+2 think girls go for mean/crazy guys. I never knew that before and I'm interested in hearing your perspective on that because it does seem to be a common view around these forums.

What I had always thought was that we girls like guys who are confident enough to not be afraid to be assertive and go off and do their own thing and not be clingy with us. That's what I had always thought girls liked in guys. Me personally, I like guys who are kind as well as very independant [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] I haven't known any girls who would admit that they go for mean/crazy guys but I certainly find the suggestion interesting.

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Personally I think it is the world seen through two different views. Guys see things other guys do that women seem oblivious too at times.

Guys see other guys "Doing their own thing" as being out with other guys getting wild, hitting on other women, sleeping with other women all the time but their "girlfriend" or spouse seems oblivious to it all. To a lot of guys this makes these guys seem to be wild bad boys who still always seem to get a lot of action from the ladies. We look at these kind of guys in this like while at the same time we see women just loving them to death because they are independent, assertive and doing their own thing.

Katy, do women looking for a man who is independent ever consider that the independence is him on the prowl for the next notch in his bedpost??? A lot of us guys who are "nice guys" are mystified by the guys who, for lack of a better term, are players and get more women than they know what to do with. I am probably not stating that well but then again I am old and have been out of the game for a long time. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[ChipStorm]

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I find it interesting that so many guys on 2+2 think girls go for mean/crazy guys. I never knew that before and I'm interested in hearing your perspective on that because it does seem to be a common view around these forums.

What I had always thought was that we girls like guys who are confident enough to not be afraid to be assertive and go off and do their own thing and not be clingy with us.... I haven't known any girls who would admit that they go for mean/crazy guys but I certainly find the suggestion interesting.

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Solo/katy,

There is definitely a guy school of thought that lots of girls crave being treated poorly. That's obviously a broad generalization: some guys believe it more, some guys make it work and some don't, and clearly girls will run the range in terms of whether it holds true.

I think it stems from foundation male/female behavior stuff. Guys are expected to be proactive, to show initiative, to lead, direct, say how things are going to be. Girls are expected (just generalizing on social norms here, don't mean to offend) to follow, to assist, to support the leader, the guy. Norms are certainly changing, but I think you'll agree that there are a lot of women who really want their man to be the leader and to tell them what to do.

When a guy treats a girl poorly, he is at the very least taking the initiative, and she is the one forced to react. Pretty lousy basis for a relationship, but I think it does fill this very basic sense of gender role, so that's why it occasionally works.

Does that strike a chord with any of the ladies?