SSNL [cheese] thread: JUNE 2007 (nc) - Page 53

bilbo-san · #**521** 06-03-2007, 05:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
WTF why do I run so bad at 200NL (this played fine as well? Villain was 11/9/2 over 35 hands)

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

Hero (SB): $212.75
BB: $218.70
UTG: $476.95
MP: $205.00
CO: $64.70
BTN: $51.85

Preflop: Hero is dealt K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 Players)
4 folds, Hero raises to $8.00, BB calls $6.00

Flop: ($16) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero bets $10.00, BB calls $10.00

Turn: ($36) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero bets $24.00, BB calls $24.00

River: ($84) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero bets $50.00, BB raises all-in to $176.70, Hero calls all-in for $120.75
Uncalled bet of $5.95 returned to BB

Pot Size: $425.50 ($3 Rake)

BB had A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (a flush, Ace high) and WON (+$209.75)
Hero had K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and LOST (-$212.75)

[/ QUOTE ]

even over 35 hands, 11/9 isn't likely to be a donk.

In general taggish players are never going nuts on a paired, 3-flush board with less than the nut flush and I think bet-folding is the way to go on this river.

aislephive · #**522** 06-03-2007, 05:50 PM

First two hands vs same villain.

Party Poker
No Limit Hold'em Cash Game
$1/$2 Blinds
4 Players
LegoPoker HH Converter

SB: $196.32
BB: $242.75
Hero (UTG): $268.30
BTN: $376.18

Preflop: Hero is dealt 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 Players)
Hero raises to $8.00, 2 folds, BB calls $6.00

Flop: ($17) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB bets $14.00, Hero calls $14.00

Turn: ($45) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB bets $22.00, Hero raises to $67.00, BB folds
Uncalled bet of $45.00 returned to Hero

Pot Size: $89.00

Party Poker
No Limit Hold'em Cash Game
$1/$2 Blinds
6 Players
LegoPoker HH Converter

SB: $558.33
BB: $206.62
UTG: $376.93
MP: $236.90
Hero (CO): $204.85
BTN: $96.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG calls $2.00, MP folds, Hero raises to $10.00, 3 folds, UTG calls $8.00

Flop: ($23) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($23) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG checks, Hero checks

River: ($23) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG bets $16.00, Hero calls $16.00

Pot Size: $55.00 ($2.75 Rake)

UTG had T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (two pairs, Fives and Threes) and LOST (-$26.00)
Hero had J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (two pairs, Fives and Threes) and WON (+$26.25)

Bonus hand wtfpwning a 50/35 lagfish:

Party Poker
No Limit Hold'em Cash Game
$1/$2 Blinds
6 Players
LegoPoker HH Converter

SB: $355.95
BB: $200.00
UTG: $654.77
Hero (MP): $271.10
CO: $64.50
BTN: $91.48

Preflop: Hero is dealt 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG raises to $8.00, Hero calls $8.00, 4 folds

Flop: ($19) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG bets $14.00, Hero calls $14.00

Turn: ($47) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $35.00, UTG raises to $110.00, Hero calls $75.00

River: ($267) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG checks, Hero bets all-in for $139.10, UTG calls $139.10

Pot Size: $545.20 ($3.50 Rake)

UTG had 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (a full house, Eights full of Threes) and LOST (-$271.10)
Hero had 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (four of a kind, Eights) and WON (+$270.60)

dawade · #**523** 06-03-2007, 06:06 PM

Note my flop bet...

Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $3.25
CO: $110.25
Button: $67.33
SB: $105.20
dawade: $65.80

Pre-flop: (5 players) dawade is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
3 folds, SB raises to $1.5, dawade raises to $5, SB calls.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($10, 2 players)
SB checks, dawade bets $7.77, SB raises to $15.54, dawade raises all-in $60.8, SB calls.

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($131.6, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $131.6)

River: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($131.6, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $131.6)

Results:
Final pot: $131.6
SB Shows 7h 7s
dawade Shows Ad Ah

holyfield5 · #**524** 06-03-2007, 06:07 PM

OK trips when im the PFR is officially a bluff catcher, it cant be variance anymore, its just overvaluing it to think people dont realize what you probably have on that board if they are getting aggro.

ASPoker8 · #**525** 06-03-2007, 06:28 PM

I'm allin.

Would any of you like to call?

willw9 · #**526** 06-03-2007, 06:31 PM

OMG I'M SO BORED

dawade · #**527** 06-03-2007, 06:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
OMG I'M SO BORED

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too, but I start summer school tomorrow. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Imrahil · #**528** 06-03-2007, 06:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
WTF why do I run so bad at 200NL (this played fine as well? Villain was 11/9/2 over 35 hands)

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

Hero (SB): $212.75
BB: $218.70
UTG: $476.95
MP: $205.00
CO: $64.70
BTN: $51.85

Preflop: Hero is dealt K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 Players)
4 folds, Hero raises to $8.00, BB calls $6.00

Flop: ($16) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero bets $10.00, BB calls $10.00

Turn: ($36) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero bets $24.00, BB calls $24.00

River: ($84) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero bets $50.00, BB raises all-in to $176.70, Hero calls all-in for $120.75
Uncalled bet of $5.95 returned to BB

Pot Size: $425.50 ($3 Rake)

BB had A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (a flush, Ace high) and WON (+$209.75)
Hero had K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and LOST (-$212.75)

[/ QUOTE ]

even over 35 hands, 11/9 isn't likely to be a donk.

In general taggish players are never going nuts on a paired, 3-flush board with less than the nut flush and I think bet-folding is the way to go on this river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think his stats are too important over only 35 hands. I ran 8/7/1 over 80 hands at one table today when I'm normaly 20/16/3.

Jigsaws · #**529** 06-03-2007, 06:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm really surprised -10BI is supposed to be standard. I've only lost 10BI once ever, and I was on huge monkeytilt. Multiple swings around -5BI, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm the same way.

TBH, I think we're missing a lot of marginally +EV bluffing situations that we don't make because they usually cost you a stack when you are picked off (i.e. our Cajones are small and shrivelled).

So let's say you've got a feel for it and you're making a lot of all-in bluffs where you're probably about +3-4 PTBB EV (on average) per hand (maybe less, just pulling a number outta my ass for illustration purposes). You're making a lot of money over the long term, but of course your variance is huge because you are basically swinging +/- a stack all the time.

For me, I know it's a bankroll issue. I need 40-50 buy-ins to start playing like a want to play.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's definitely not a bankroll issue for me. I've got ~20k online right now, spread over various sites. I should be moving up, but I still don't feel I'm really crushing 200NL, as I felt I was crushing 100NL before I moved up. I ran at 7+ PTBB over a significant sample there, whereas I'm ~4PTBB at 200NL lifetime. Maybe a much higher winrate isn't possible for a nit like me.

I just don't think I have the right feel for spots in which I should be making those big bluffs. The thing about Stars 200NL is that most regulars really really hate folding. I should have a really tight image, and I'm still constantly surprised by what people pay me off with in certain spots. Spots in which I'll never ever or very very rarely show them a bluff.

Earlier in the May cheese thread you commented on a hand where my opponent cold-called my RR from then SB, then check-called with QQ twice against my OESFD. That was a spot in which I show up with a bluff (or even a semibluff) very very rarely. I'm just not going to have a hand I can bluff with very often, and I c-bet into two players on an immensely wet board in a reraised pot! I decided to bluff there especially because of that, but I still got called, and really, I knew I was going to be called. I think I should've reverse-posted that hand, I really think everyone would've told me to fold.

I have been working on some things to get more tricky, though: shoving flops against light 3betters with overcards/gutshots, floating in RR pots and double barreling a bit more. All plays that increase my variance, but I think they're +EV, both in the long run and for shania when I get caught.

As an example, villain seemed like a pretty good TAG. Yada yada blind battle TPTK is the nuts, but I'm just never ever showing him a worse hand. I really think he should be folding AQ here, but most Stars 200NL regs are never going to! Until they do, I'm just going to show them a set in this spot every time.

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $198.00
Hero (BB): $236.20
UTG: $225.00
CO: $429.45
BTN: $178.75

Preflop: Hero is dealt 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 Players)
3 folds, SB raises to $8.00, Hero calls $6.00

Flop: ($16) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB bets $12.00, Hero raises to $38.00, SB calls $26.00

Turn: ($92) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $58.00, SB raises all-in to $152.00, Hero calls $94.00

River: ($396) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 All-In)

Pot Size: $396.00 ($2 Rake)

SB had Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (a pair of Queens) and LOST (-$198.00)
Hero had 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (three of a kind, Eights) and WON (+$196.00)

holyfield5 · #**530** 06-03-2007, 07:05 PM

both of these brutal hands happen within the first 10 hands of todays session.

this is just one of the ugliest hands i can imagine, i mean wtf

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Hold'em Cash Game
$1/$2 Blinds
5 Players
LegoPoker HH Converter

SB: $104.60
Hero (BB): $203.00
UTG: $321.00
CO: $200.00
BTN: $162.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 Players)
UTG folds, CO raises to $6.00, BTN folds, SB folds, Hero calls $4.00

Flop: ($13) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero bets $8.00, CO raises to $16.00, Hero raises to $60.00, CO calls $44.00

Turn: ($133) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero bets all-in for $137.00, CO calls all-in for $134.00
Uncalled bet of $3.00 returned to Hero

River: ($401) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players - 2 All-In)

Pot Size: $401.00 ($3 Rake)

CO had A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (two pair, Aces and Eights) and WON (+$198.00)
Hero had 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (a pair of Aces) and LOST (-$200.00)

here i went for a thin value bet thinking he cant possible get here with a 10

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Hold'em Cash Game
$1/$2 Blinds
6 Players
LegoPoker HH Converter

SB: $390.05
Hero (BB): $200.00
UTG: $219.05
MP: $211.75
CO: $197.00
BTN: $235.45

Preflop: Hero is dealt 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG folds, MP calls $2.00, CO folds, BTN calls $2.00, SB raises to $4.00, Hero calls $2.00, MP calls $2.00, BTN calls $2.00

Flop: ($16) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $12.00, MP folds, BTN folds, SB calls $12.00

Turn: ($40) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $32.00, SB calls $32.00

River: ($104) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $60.00, SB raises to $120.00, Hero calls $60.00

Pot Size: $344.00 ($3 Rake)

SB had Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (a straight, Ace high) and WON (+$173.00)
Hero had 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (three of a kind, Threes) and LOST (-$168.00)