NL Bots on Full Tilt

[jrbick]

I don't know what to make of this.

Guess I'll be posting for a FTP for Stars trade in the mean time.

[dp13368]

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<font color="red"> Also, what do you make of "folding to pre-flop min-reraise", insta-folding to river blocking min-bet etc kind of stuff? </font>

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Nation, this is a VERY relevant question....

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Isn't this a strategy flaw / using "fold to any bet"?



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So, if nation or this guy's "minions/slaves" raise preflop they automatically click "fold to any bet" and fold to a min-3bet ?

Unless I am misunderstanding your counterargument, that does not seem to make sense to me.

[wildzer0]

I don't really know what to make of this thread, but I'll say this re: [ QUOTE ]
Also, what do you make of "folding to pre-flop min-reraise", insta-folding to river blocking min-bet etc kind of stuff?

[/ QUOTE ] I've zoned out and clicked the "Fold to any bet" button when multitabling when I shouldn't have. Has there been a patter of this or was it just the one hand?

[nation]

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<font color="red"> Also, what do you make of "folding to pre-flop min-reraise", insta-folding to river blocking min-bet etc kind of stuff? </font>

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Nation, this is a VERY relevant question....

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Not really. First of all, when you're playing 8+ tables (i 12 table so i know this) and you raise in position with a less than stellar hand, generally if you get 3 bet you're folding. for example, sometimes if I raise in LP with kto, and a tight regular 3 bets me and I'm oop, I'll fold to the minreraise. I just think there are -ev spots to call the minreraise, esp when your initial raise is to 12 or more.

That's just one reason but the main reason is they have a fold to any bet option in the software, and sometimes it's just easier to use that when you're playing a ton of tables.

[nation]

Many of you guys are using specific instances as evidence as to them using bots, and that's counterintuitive. I guarantee the folding to min bets or minraises happens sporadically or rarely, and that in itself is proof that it's not a bot playing.

[BrandonJoseph47]

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Alright, finally caught up. I knew this thread would explode but to logon to 2p2 again and see 440 new posts in this thread shocked me.

Nation's development is quite interesting. Naturally, I don't believe it, but I'm looking forward to more being posted about it. Seriously Nation, why don't use just introduce his username and have him post?

Regarding the stats, I datamined sporadically. Often I'd have only part of all the 1/2 tables getting recorded (like on weekends). Also, full tilt would have an update or Microsoft would do an automatic update and the datamining would break. Thus, if I had to guess, I would assume the stats I posted are between 1/4 to a 1/3 of all $200nl hands played for that time period. It is definitely not a full record by any means.

For the bots reacting to my login, I wanted to clarify a bit. Some people were posting that the bots avoided my tables. That's not what happened. (I played 10-12 tables, so it's not like they could have avoided me.) Occasionally, when I logged in, all three bots would simultaneously logout. At first when I would sit down at the tables, I'd be surprised that there weren't any bots playing. Over time, I started checking the "Find a Player" immediately upon logging on, seeing they would all be playing, then all disappear as I was sitting down. Also, it's not like this happened all the time, maybe 1 out of every 10 days.

But the fact that it happened it all I thought was pretty damning. There's no reason for humans to do this. One guy could just tell the others, "Trebek's logged on" and they'd know to start watching my play. Last, because it was associated with my logon and not my sitting down at the tables, I believe it was a computer checking it.

I was going to post some further conclusive proof that the four players had to be the same player pf (pictures of their by position stats so that you can see the absurd jump from hj+1 to hj as they change from white haired old nit to crazy lag college kid running over the table). Doesn't look to be needed quite as much since nation acknowledged they're intending to play the exact same way. Maybe I'll post it at some point just so people can determine if a player who is 14/7 and they think is a bot is associated with all of this or not.

Their postflop numbers I believe show that they aren't human. They are approaching the same difficult situations (middle pair, overcards, whatever) against different opponents and coming up with the same decisions. Thousands and thousands of decisions. I wish I could show more stat-type proof of their precise similarity postflop. But because pokertracker does such a bad job of analyzing postflop, I don't know how much further info I'll be able to provide.

They did a laughably poor job adjusting to me. When I started re-exploiting them squeezing limpers, I couldn't believe they didn't tone it down, they kept doing even if I had just reraised them the previous orbit and they folded to my raise. They'd just do it again, I reraise again and they fold again. For that reason, I thought at a minimum preflop had to be on autopilot.

I'll try and think of some more instances that will show that they were making plays that human players wouldn't have done.

-Trebek

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Ok. First of all you're talking about 1/4 or 1/3 of the hands. Not even half. Secondly, maybe they all take a lunch break, log off to protect winnings, and log back on. Or is it that "SukitTrebek" plays SOOO well that they run and hide when you show up. That makes a TON of sense. Like I said before, FullTilt did an investigation and cleared these guys. What would I know, though, I don't waste my life in these forums like some of you clowns..

[DrNo888]

Nation,

Please get a picture of the setup with all persons sitting and playing their respective accounts. Faces can be blurred out.

[Our House]

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I guarantee the folding to min bets or minraises happens sporadically or rarely, and that in itself is proof that it's not a bot playing.

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Nation,

Not to take away from your credibility, but if you're telling the 100% truth, then you would be either laughing or getting frustrated at people who bring up ridiculous points; NOT trying to supply "proof" that your story is correct.

[DWarrior]

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<font color="red"> Also, what do you make of "folding to pre-flop min-reraise", insta-folding to river blocking min-bet etc kind of stuff? </font>

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Nation, this is a VERY relevant question....

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Isn't this a strategy flaw / using "fold to any bet"?



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So, if nation or this guy's "minions/slaves" raise preflop they automatically click "fold to any bet" and fold to a min-3bet ?

Unless I am misunderstanding your counterargument, that does not seem to make sense to me.

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I think you're mixing up these two situations. Let's separate the two and look at each one.

First, they fold to a min 3bet pre-flop. I've personally done this, and I think it's a flaw if you always call min re-raises. This may have been accentuated by their volume of play and whoever pointed this out just noticed the rare times this has occurred. Also, I don't see why a bot should be folding to min re-raises any more than a player.

Second situation is them folding to river blocking bets. Taking this in a vacuum, this could easily be due to missed draws and failed bluffs. If the guy's playing 12-16 tables (and it sounds like he is), he probably just clicks "fold to any bet" if he knows bluffing river is useless and he can't call any bet based on his hand. Also, if you select fold to any bet, the software doesn't notify you in case it's a min bet. Now, I could see this being a slightly more valid argument if they folded to min-bets after nearly timing out, and I would suspect that a poker bot would take more time to make decisions on the river, where they have to take a lot more factors into consideration. As it stands though, this seems an obvious case of the use of "fold to any bet".

Who is more likely to use fold to any bet buttons, a bot or a human?

[jrbick]

Wondering about:


1. Timing of all decisions (folding preflop included)

2. Timing of play between the 3 accounts -- have they ever played at separate times or do they always play at the same time?