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#501
11-02-2007, 08:17 PM
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Re: Bonds bitter over departure from Giants
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Hewlett P and Smith A [ QUOTE ] CONCLUSIONS: The present findings show no effect of overnight caffeine withdrawal on mood and performance. Caffeine challenge did have the predicted effect on alertness and vigilance, with the size of the effects increasing with caffeine dose. These findings suggest that the effects of caffeine are not due to reversal of effects of withdrawal, a view confirmed by secondary analyses of data collected after a day of normal caffeine consumption. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] That's enough. I'm not going to argue this lunacy with you anymore. If you have any valid arguments, let me know. [/ QUOTE ] So you ask me to show you the studies, I show you a bunch of studies, and you get mad. I sort of know how RedBean feels, I think. 
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#502
11-02-2007, 08:19 PM
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Re: Bonds bitter over departure from Giants
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I will mentionm, in the interests of disclosure, that I abuse caffeine like its going out of style. [/ QUOTE ] I do as well, to the point that I'm almost immune to it (it seems). I drink in excess of ten diet drinks a day and have zero problem falling asleep at any time. I don't particularly feel like I have an unfair advantage over my coworkers due to my excess! [/ QUOTE ] Well, if you dont feel like it, I guess it doesnt happen. Feel free to ignore all the studies that show EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE, that you do in fact have an advantage over your coworkers, as long as what you are doing requires concentration, attention and endurance. [/ QUOTE ] Show me the studies. Show me the percentage of improvement. [/ QUOTE ] As I said, completely irrelevant. They are either performance-enhancing or not. This is a moral question: is it wrong to use artificial performance enhancers that modify body chemistry and allow you take shortcuts? We aren't asking it ifs morally wrong to take crappy ones. [/ QUOTE ] What? You're kidding, right? So, if caffeine has a 0.1% improvement in ability and steroids has 100%, they are comparable? Not to mention, the "core" improvement is different as I said. I don't care how much caffeine you take, it isn't going to help you understand the theory of relativity or know the answers of any questions. The best it can do is improve recall, etc. [/ QUOTE ] Well, that would be a good point if the entire basis of competition wasn't recall. Which it is. So improving recall is the ONLY thing that really matters. [/ QUOTE ] Ahh, so you're only improving your recall of something you already know? So it isn't really allowing you to do something you can't already do? Yeah, that's like steroids. Good analogy.
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#503
11-02-2007, 08:20 PM
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Re: Bonds bitter over departure from Giants
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Hewlett P and Smith A [ QUOTE ] CONCLUSIONS: The present findings show no effect of overnight caffeine withdrawal on mood and performance. Caffeine challenge did have the predicted effect on alertness and vigilance, with the size of the effects increasing with caffeine dose. These findings suggest that the effects of caffeine are not due to reversal of effects of withdrawal, a view confirmed by secondary analyses of data collected after a day of normal caffeine consumption. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] That's enough. I'm not going to argue this lunacy with you anymore. If you have any valid arguments, let me know. [/ QUOTE ] So you ask me to show you the studies, I show you a bunch of studies, and you get mad. I sort of know how RedBean feels, I think. [/ QUOTE ] Except there are no percentages, as I asked. Yes, you are as stubborn at arguing points that no one else would argue because they are so ridiculous.
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#504
11-02-2007, 08:20 PM
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Re: Bonds bitter over departure from Giants
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I will mentionm, in the interests of disclosure, that I abuse caffeine like its going out of style. [/ QUOTE ] I do as well, to the point that I'm almost immune to it (it seems). I drink in excess of ten diet drinks a day and have zero problem falling asleep at any time. I don't particularly feel like I have an unfair advantage over my coworkers due to my excess! [/ QUOTE ] Well, if you dont feel like it, I guess it doesnt happen. Feel free to ignore all the studies that show EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE, that you do in fact have an advantage over your coworkers, as long as what you are doing requires concentration, attention and endurance. [/ QUOTE ] Show me the studies. Show me the percentage of improvement. [/ QUOTE ] As I said, completely irrelevant. They are either performance-enhancing or not. This is a moral question: is it wrong to use artificial performance enhancers that modify body chemistry and allow you take shortcuts? We aren't asking it ifs morally wrong to take crappy ones. [/ QUOTE ] What? You're kidding, right? So, if caffeine has a 0.1% improvement in ability and steroids has 100%, they are comparable? Not to mention, the "core" improvement is different as I said. I don't care how much caffeine you take, it isn't going to help you understand the theory of relativity or know the answers of any questions. The best it can do is improve recall, etc. [/ QUOTE ] The studies I've linked state that there is a dose-dependent performance boost with caffeine. So, the "impact" of caffeine is whatever you want it to be. It isnt 5% or 100%, its related to how much you take. Just like steroids.
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#505
11-02-2007, 08:22 PM
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Re: Bonds bitter over departure from Giants
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I will mentionm, in the interests of disclosure, that I abuse caffeine like its going out of style. [/ QUOTE ] I do as well, to the point that I'm almost immune to it (it seems). I drink in excess of ten diet drinks a day and have zero problem falling asleep at any time. I don't particularly feel like I have an unfair advantage over my coworkers due to my excess! [/ QUOTE ] Well, if you dont feel like it, I guess it doesnt happen. Feel free to ignore all the studies that show EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE, that you do in fact have an advantage over your coworkers, as long as what you are doing requires concentration, attention and endurance. [/ QUOTE ] Show me the studies. Show me the percentage of improvement. [/ QUOTE ] As I said, completely irrelevant. They are either performance-enhancing or not. This is a moral question: is it wrong to use artificial performance enhancers that modify body chemistry and allow you take shortcuts? We aren't asking it ifs morally wrong to take crappy ones. [/ QUOTE ] What? You're kidding, right? So, if caffeine has a 0.1% improvement in ability and steroids has 100%, they are comparable? Not to mention, the "core" improvement is different as I said. I don't care how much caffeine you take, it isn't going to help you understand the theory of relativity or know the answers of any questions. The best it can do is improve recall, etc. [/ QUOTE ] Well, that would be a good point if the entire basis of competition wasn't recall. Which it is. So improving recall is the ONLY thing that really matters. [/ QUOTE ] Ahh, so you're only improving your recall of something you already know? So it isn't really allowing you to do something you can't already do? Yeah, that's like steroids. Good analogy. [/ QUOTE ] No, succeeding in medical school = demonstrating phenomenal recall. Succeeding in baseball = hitting the ball really hard. You treat recall like it isnt its own unique skill, and so you say "its not doing something you couldnt already do." Just because I learned something once does not mean I have a limitless ability to remember it. Improving THIS ability, the ability to remember it, to levels I couldnt otherwise achieve, is JUST LIKE STEROIDS.
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#506
11-02-2007, 08:23 PM
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Re: Bonds bitter over departure from Giants
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Hewlett P and Smith A [ QUOTE ] CONCLUSIONS: The present findings show no effect of overnight caffeine withdrawal on mood and performance. Caffeine challenge did have the predicted effect on alertness and vigilance, with the size of the effects increasing with caffeine dose. These findings suggest that the effects of caffeine are not due to reversal of effects of withdrawal, a view confirmed by secondary analyses of data collected after a day of normal caffeine consumption. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] That's enough. I'm not going to argue this lunacy with you anymore. If you have any valid arguments, let me know. [/ QUOTE ] So you ask me to show you the studies, I show you a bunch of studies, and you get mad. I sort of know how RedBean feels, I think. [/ QUOTE ] Except there are no percentages, as I asked. Yes, you are as stubborn at arguing points that no one else would argue because they are so ridiculous. [/ QUOTE ] You are kind of being a googletard at this point. You asked for the studies, I found them for you. I even linked them for you. I only QUOTED the results or conclusions, to make it easier on you, but if you really want all the numbers and percentages and data maybe you should try reading some of them.
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#507
11-02-2007, 08:25 PM
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Re: Bonds bitter over departure from Giants
[ QUOTE ]
Improving THIS ability, the ability to remember it, to levels I couldnt otherwise achieve, is JUST LIKE STEROIDS. [/ QUOTE ] No, it isn't. Saying it over and over again isn't going to make it true.
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#508
11-02-2007, 08:26 PM
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Re: Bonds bitter over departure from Giants
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Improving THIS ability, the ability to remember it, to levels I couldnt otherwise achieve, is JUST LIKE STEROIDS. [/ QUOTE ] No, it isn't. Saying it over and over again isn't going to make it true. [/ QUOTE ] LOL, but you saying "no it isnt" is totally different, right? Recall is a skill. Learning material is also a skill but it is a very different skill. Improving your recall is not "something you could have done anyway." It is a completely individual skill. Caffeine improves this skill. Artificially. The fact that I am recalling facts that I used a DIFFERENT skill to put in my brain in the first place makes no difference. It IS allowing me to do something I couldnt already do. It is allowing me to "recall things really well." Something I couldnt already do.
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#509
11-02-2007, 08:31 PM
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Re: Bonds bitter over departure from Giants
[ QUOTE ]
You are kind of being a googletard at this point. You asked for the studies, I found them for you. I even linked them for you. I only QUOTED the results or conclusions, to make it easier on you, but if you really want all the numbers and percentages and data maybe you should try reading some of them. [/ QUOTE ] None of the studies added any info, no percentages. One wasn't even relevant because it was on caffeine withdrawal. Most said "caffeine group was more alert than normal group". No percentage of groups were quoted and no amount of improvement in alertness was noted. But, it's the same as steroids. I get it now.
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#510
11-02-2007, 08:33 PM
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Re: Bonds bitter over departure from Giants
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Improving THIS ability, the ability to remember it, to levels I couldnt otherwise achieve, is JUST LIKE STEROIDS. [/ QUOTE ] No, it isn't. Saying it over and over again isn't going to make it true. [/ QUOTE ] LOL, but you saying "no it isnt" is totally different, right? Recall is a skill. Learning material is also a skill but it is a very different skill. Improving your recall is not "something you could have done anyway." It is a completely individual skill. Caffeine improves this skill. Artificially. The fact that I am recalling facts that I used a DIFFERENT skill to put in my brain in the first place makes no difference. It IS allowing me to do something I couldnt already do. It is allowing me to "recall things really well." Something I couldnt already do. [/ QUOTE ] At a miniscule level, if any, and not with all people, and it isn't the core activity, which is learning the material....repeat....repeat.
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