Ask a music scene micro celebrity

[ec3to1]

I hate to be another one of these register-just-for-this-thread pests but it's not every day something this valuable happens on the internet, so here's a few questions.

-Shellac records somehow make it to the CD format with their dynamic range still intact, which is great, but I've heard other albums that you recorded (High On Fire is a good example) that are completely obliterated with peak limiting. How much control do you and the rest of the band have over the mastering of your own records? And how much control, if any, do you have over the mastering of your recordings of other bands?

-All Music Guide claims that you were "infuriated" when the Jesus Lizard left T&G for the majors. Is there any shred of truth to this?

-Are you a fan of any Chicago avant garde jazz, like the Art Ensemble, Anthony Braxton, et al? If so, could you name a favorite record or two from that scene?

Anyway, thank you for Billiard Player Song at the T&G Anniversary show. That put a huge smile on my face and caused me to say lots of superlatives for the next few days.

Also, at the Shellac show at Martyr's a couple years ago I told you to do the devil-horns with your hand, and then I snapped a picture of you on slide film. It's mildly amusing. One of these days I'll scan it in and email it to Electrical.

My apologies for being a leech on this forum.

-EC

[electrical]

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Recording the Godspeed record where there any particular challenges recording a group that big (or perhaps they were pared down for recording?). They have a reputation for being this quiet shadowy group. True? I've always assumed this was a rep that came from not talking to the media etc so media just makes something up. Also any particular reason you didn't mix the record? Was the final project much of a departure from what left your studio? How long did the record take to make? thnx.

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The Godspeed! sessions were done in two chunks, totalling about three weeks, and were taxing, but inspiring in a couple of weird ways.

The collective aspect of the band is something I'm familiar with and comfortable with, so that wasn't a problem, other than occasionally having to get everybody together and discuss different options at a little more length than usual. It intruded more when trying to decide where the smokers were going to smoke than any recording consideration.

Anybody who has been in even a three-piece band knows how difficult it can be to keep the peace, and I was impressed at the lengths these guys went to to make sure everyone in the band was heard.

The formal elements of the band and the music have their own inherent problems. The band had nine members: two drummers, three electric guitarists, two bassists, a 'cello, violin, various mallet percussion instruments, a music box and a penny whistle. Their music often has crescendos that begin very quiet (ppp) and are eventually hard rock loud (ffff). This mix of loud and quiet sounds, acoustic and electric instruments and a lot of people makes even the physical setup in the studio difficult. We had to try several arrangements of chairs and rooms, often moving everything involved in the session before everyone was comfortable.

The next problem was recording both the very quiet and very loud sounds accurately. Ordinarily, small adjustments can be made in mixing to compensate for louder and quieter parts, but this was an extreme case, with an active dynamic range of better than 28dB. The conventional or hack approach to a problem of wide dynamic range is to use compressors to restrict the top-end of the dynamic range, but I have never liked the artificial sound quality imparted by this method.

The "clamping" action of the compressor is noticeable, and it sacrifices detail at the highest point of the dynamic, when the music is reaching its biggest moments. This would be a particularly inappropriate choice for a band like Godspeed! Still, I needed to be able to ride the gain on as many as a dozen microphones in a smooth, repeatable fashion, so I used the channel grouping feature of our console to create sub-masters for each of the instruments, and I rode the gain on the individual instruments, keeping them at a reasonable level throughout the course of songs as long as ten minutes.

Several of the pieces were meant to flow seamlessly from one to the next, but could not be performed this way because of instrument changes or other reasons, so I needed to be able to knit together several chunks recorded separately while maintaining the illusion that they were performed at once. In most cases there was a transitional moment, where piece "A" ended and piece "B" started, so these transitional moments were scripted into each piece, so there would be a range of editing options. In once case, there was a gradual guitar crescendo, so the edit needed to observe that dynamic and avoid creating a jarring change. This part of the session organization took more thought and preparation than I was expecting, but eventually it all worked out.

There were some additional musicians recorded for a couple of parts, in particular a string section comprising several double-basses, but the original session was still set-up and couldn't be disturbed, so during this period the band were occupying both studios.

As the session progressed, individual players needed to add overdubs, and we would concentrate on one person until finished, and then move on to the next player. This part of the session involved some very long days for me, and it seemed like the band were eating and sleeping in shifts while I worked every minute.

Eventually, the record was finished and mixed, and the band went on their way. I wasn't party to the discussions after they left, but with such a complex project, it isn't surprising that there were things the band were dissatisfied with over time, and they decided to mix the album themselves (there was some additional recording done as well) at the studio they normally used in Montreal, with an engineer (Howard Bilerman) who is a friend and an important part of their extended family. That they were eventually happy enough to release the record is good enough for me.

Any other complications involved boiled down to me not speaking French very well, the US border crossings being a bastard, and Canadians being weird in general.

[electrical]

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Hello steve, this is my first post.

Would love to get some tips off you, not so much on a technical level as i'm sure you've done that to death but more how you've got your name your name out there.

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You do this by "advertizing." Here's a pretty good example: You buy-in for the minimum, and post in late position. Regardless of your hole cards (I would suggest not looking at them), if it's limped to you, make a sizable raise pre-flop, Say 6xBB +1BB for every limper. If it's raised in front of you, re-raise to about 1/3 your stack. If you get called, push any flop. If you get called, flip your random cards over and say something about how you like to gamble. If you don't get called, flip your cards over and say "you guys play too tight!" After that, you'll want to re-buy (or add-on if you get lucky) up to the table maximum and play normal poker. Your advertising budget should not exceed one minimum buy-in.

I have to warn you though, playing like this is strangely addictive, and you must resist the urge to barrel ahead with huge random raises and pushing all-in with crappy cards. You might end up betting on sports.

[/ QUOTE ]

[electrical]

[ QUOTE ]
-Shellac records somehow make it to the CD format with their dynamic range still intact, which is great, but I've heard other albums that you recorded (High On Fire is a good example) that are completely obliterated with peak limiting. How much control do you and the rest of the band have over the mastering of your own records? And how much control, if any, do you have over the mastering of your recordings of other bands?

[/ QUOTE ]
It's pretty rare that I have any influence on the mastering of records I record. I always give my recommendations, but what happens to the record after it leaves here is the business of the band and the label. I didn't think the High on Fire record fared too badly though.

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-All Music Guide claims that you were "infuriated" when the Jesus Lizard left T&G for the majors. Is there any shred of truth to this?

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I was pretty disappointed in the band, because they were successful at proving the point that some bands are best served by independent labels, and they seemed too smart to fall for sucker bait. Most of their contemporaries who signed to major labels didn't do well, selling no more records (often fewer) than they had on independent labels, and ultimately ground themselves apart trying to fit into the mainstream. That the Jesus Lizard made this calculated move knowing these stories intimately made it even more puzzling.

In the wash, they made their final couple of lesser albums for a big label, they got a chunk of "extra" money out of it, and maybe the band had reached the end of their rope anyway. Who knows. It was a long time ago, the records that established their reputation survive as monuments, and they deserve credit for busting ass in the first place.

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-Are you a fan of any Chicago avant garde jazz, like the Art Ensemble, Anthony Braxton, et al? If so, could you name a favorite record or two from that scene?

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Not so much. I think this music is from the hearts of the people making it, and I respect them. I just have no taste for it.

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[electrical]

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Although you seem quite anti-digital, in respect to recording sound,or maybe just more so, music.Do you think that if you were in the same position today as you were when you first thought about recording your own music, you'd have embraced the technology - un-willingly or otherwise.Or do you think you would have still sought after, the more expensive,more cumbersome,more second hand (and harder to get fix with a steeper learning curve,especially these days) alternative, of analogue?

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I think I would have done whatever everybody else was doing. I don't think the advantages of analog recording are obvious to people who don't work with it everyday, and who haven't seen digital recording technologies consistently fail to solve their fundamental problems.

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Does that mean you have never been apart of a "layered" recording before,where the band records not only separatly but to a click track?

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I have. That's how I know it's a drag.

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And if not, why not, and does it mean you would agree to be at the helm of such a recording if a band expressed the desire to record in such a way ?

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I'll do whatever the band wants to do. I haven't had good results using the piecemeal technique you describe so I don't generally advocate it, but if somebody wants to do it, then whatever, it's his funeral.

[ICallHimGamblor]

Not sure how to ask this without sounding snarky... 2p2 regular and big fan here. I am curious what you would say now about this quote:

"WHEN IN FIVE YEARS, THIS REMARKABLE ACHIEVEMENT IN THE ADVANCEMENT OF FIDELITY IS OBSOLETE AND UNPLAYABLE ON ANY 'MODERN' EQUIPMENT, REMEMBER: IN 1971, THE 8-TRACK TAPE WAS THE STATE OF THE ART." -- Steve Albini about CDs, 1987.

Have you changed your opinion about digital or the media now that twenty years have elapsed?

[electrical]

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what is the general perception of Liz Phair in Chicago, both now and at the height of her Guyville/Whipsmart phase.

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Liz Phair was quite popular in Chicago both from the time of her first album and the cassettes she released earlier. It wasn't music meant for me, so it's no surprise that I didn't appreciate it, but plenty of people thought she was great.

The shine came off around the time of her second album, and subsequent records haven't been received too well. While she has always been a bit of a nipple exhibitionist, she reached "dirty mom" status recently. MILF-aspiring but still MINLF. Also, what's up with her lifting her chin so we look up her snout in her photos?

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Also wonder what you think of Brad Wood as a producer/engineer? Thoughts on John McIntyre as a producer? Ever been to his studo...similar to yours?

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The old Idful studio was a valuable resource for bands in Chicago, and a lot of good records came out of there. Brad went to some lengths to get a "real" career with a big record label, and in so doing kinda took himself out of the loop with regard to local bands, and he sealed the deal by moving to California, but while he was here he did a bunch of good records with a bunch of bands and was well-liked.

Engine, the studio he was last associated with before he moved, has ties to some of the real creeps of the Chicago music business oligarchy, and I've never been there. He is no longer involved in it, as far as I know, but the studio is still open for business.

Soma, John McEntire's studio is a nice place with a restored Trident A-Range console, a real gem. The studio was built with help from the guys that built Electrical, and it shares some similarities, but is more aimed at the hybrid electronic/live aesthetic. Soma has an outstanding collection of analog keyboards and synthesizers. A lot of good records have been made there and John is both a good engineer and a great drummer.

[electrical]

[ QUOTE ]
"WHEN IN FIVE YEARS, THIS REMARKABLE ACHIEVEMENT IN THE ADVANCEMENT OF FIDELITY IS OBSOLETE AND UNPLAYABLE ON ANY 'MODERN' EQUIPMENT, REMEMBER: IN 1971, THE 8-TRACK TAPE WAS THE STATE OF THE ART." -- Steve Albini about CDs, 1987.

Have you changed your opinion about digital or the media now that twenty years have elapsed?

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I was off by a little, but right in principle. Do you own an Ipod? That's not a CD player, is it.

Vinyl records will still be in current manufacture after CDs are a dimming memory. Vinyl sales have been trending up, as have electronic sales (downloads), while CD sales have been in decline.

[ICallHimGamblor]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"WHEN IN FIVE YEARS, THIS REMARKABLE ACHIEVEMENT IN THE ADVANCEMENT OF FIDELITY IS OBSOLETE AND UNPLAYABLE ON ANY 'MODERN' EQUIPMENT, REMEMBER: IN 1971, THE 8-TRACK TAPE WAS THE STATE OF THE ART." -- Steve Albini about CDs, 1987.

Have you changed your opinion about digital or the media now that twenty years have elapsed?

[/ QUOTE ]
I was off by a little, but right in principle. Do you own an Ipod? That's not a CD player, is it.

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I don't want to put words in your mouth, but as I recall, your argument was that digital recordings were fragile and unrecoverable, thus analog was the preferred format. CDs are still by far the dominant format in an admitted failing industry and the public moving to ipods doesn't exactly support your point, right?

This argument is two decades old, so I am sorry if I misremembered your original point....

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Vinyl records will still be in current manufacture after CDs are a dimming memory. Vinyl sales have been trending up, as have electronic sales (downloads), while CD sales have been in decline.

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The way I understand it, vinyl sales are only trending up for 7 inches, not cds, more for 'trend' value than media shift. And since when does the trends and whims of the public make a compelling argument for you? Your point was that the media would be unplayable.

Sincerely looking forward to your response...

[electrical]

Cds have a per-unit lifespan of 20 years or so, if you're lucky. Many fail in as little as 5 years. Other than physically breaking or gouging it, there's no reason a vinyl record won't last several hundred years. Purely-digital data (downloads and other sound files) are infinitely more fragile, since they exist only resident on a drive (which is itself vulnerable to failure) and dependent on software to make any sound at all, and that software is beholden to the software maker for all its functionality, and that software is beholden to the computer industry as a whole. This is more of a problem with proprietary file formats for professional use, but it is true nonetheless.

I have been through this particular debate almost as often as the major label vs independent label debate, and I don't have the energy to recite all the point-by-point discussions, but if you do archive searches at prosoundweb and rec.audio.pro and the Ampexlist at recordist.com you'll find several thousand words from me on the topic.

Once you're up at the front of the boat, we can discuss what's ahead.

Regarding sales, CD's only real advantage (not perceived, but real) over vinyl is convenience, and that is how they won their market share. Ipods et al trump that step in convenience by a mile, and so I expect that CDs will lose the convenience-first battle to downloads. That will be the end of them.