***OFFICIAL*** LOST Season 3 Episode 20 Discussion -spoiler free-

[WellThatsFine]

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Hello screencap from previous episode.




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Past tense "loved." Does this mean Jacob is some kind of spirit?

Also one thing that bothers me is the punctured lung heals in a day but in the first or second episode the martial who had Kate under arrest was hurt for a day or 3 without getting any better. Also the pilot up in the tree, or someone up in a tree seemed pretty bad off still. Why do they not get heeled?

rJ_

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the island doesn't heal everyone and each person has a different relationship with the island...some people are more "special" than others, therefore some get healed while others don't

[rJ_]

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Past tense "loved." Does this mean Jacob is some kind of spirit?

Also one thing that bothers me is the punctured lung heals in a day but in the first or second episode the martial who had Kate under arrest was hurt for a day or 3 without getting any better. Also the pilot up in the tree, or someone up in a tree seemed pretty bad off still. Why do they not get heeled?

rJ_

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the island doesn't heal everyone and each person has a different relationship with the island...some people are more "special" than others, therefore some get healed while others don't

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If this explains it then how does Mikail know that Naomi's injuries will heal quick without knowing her. Using your rationale he must know her.

rJ_

[gwhiz_612]

My theory is that Locke ends up becoming the leader of the the others. Ben killed his father before becoming a member of the 'hostiles' and Locke did the same, yet not directly which could be important later. Ben seems to be the one that carries out the will of jacob now but perhaps he is failing or running out of time and now jacob requires a new servant and thus the "help me". With a little faith and some help from richard Locke could probably be convinced that assisting jacob is his calling.

I found an interesting recap by vozzek here that I have posted(partially) below. After reading this I did think of something else. Maybe Ben let walt and michael go because walt was 'special' just like ben is special and now locke. Perhaps Ben is not wanting one of these other special people to take his place as the one. Heres the recap by vozzek ...
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Jacob Needs an Extreme Home Makeover
Alright, let's get to the good stuff. This scene is the reason we all watch LOST. I usually watch an episode twice before writing this, but I put this scene through the paces at least a half dozen times - and two of those were on slow-mo. Lots of important stuff here.

First impression: Ben's a lunatic. He really REALLY didn't seem to want Locke to go in there, and did everything he could to talk him out of it. I originally thought Ben was bluffing. Once inside the empty shack, I figured his bluff was called. So did Locke. The whole invisible man thing seemed a put-on, and for a moment I thought the writers were going to pull the ultimate cop out. Man was I wrong.

"Help me" was easily one of the creepiest things I've heard in a long time. It was skin-crawlingly perfect. Locke's incredulity at what he perceived to be Ben's continued ruse was shattered by his realization that someone really was in that chair. And in that one moment, everything changed. Even Locke's fearless demeanor, as he bolted the house.

What really changed however, was Jacob's org chart. Here's the breakdown, so stay with me:

BEN (To Jacob): "I told you he wouldn't".

Ben's telling Jacob that Locke can't see him. As the only one to see and hear Jacob, Ben wants it to stay that way. To keep in power he's vehemently kept anyone else from Jacob - especially someone as special as Locke.

BEN (To Locke): "You can't see him?" (slightly mockingly) "He's sitting right there, in this chair".

Ben's giddily relieved that Locke can't see Jacob. He thinks Locke doesn't have the faith. He doesn't want him to.

BEN (To Jacob): "Yes I know, but he insisted".

Jacob just told Ben that Locke wasn't ready. Apparently Jacob wanted Locke to come, but only once he would be able to see him. Ben's half apologetic and half making excuses. Secretly, he's glad Locke came early.

BEN (To Jacob): "I am not. He made me bring him here, did you think that it was my-"

Jacob just accused Ben of conspiring to fail by bringing Locke early. Jacob's smart. He knows Ben wants to maintain control... he knows Ben doesn't want Locke to see him. Jacob is realizing that Ben's agenda is not his own.

LOCKE (To Ben): "Do you think there's someone there?"

BEN (To Locke): "I KNOW there is. I'm sorry John, (snootily) that you're too limited to see".

Ben's not sorry at all, he's glad as hell. With Locke unable to see or hear Jacob Ben maintains control over his people AND he fulfills Jacob's orders to bring Locke to see him (if a bit early). He's in the clear on both counts.

What happens next is Jacob gets pissed. Forget Locke's flashlight, Jacob is angry with Ben's complete lack of progress. It is at this point that Jacob abandons Ben. The transition occurs here. This is when he speaks to Locke, and for the first time Locke can hear him. For the first time, Ben cannot.

After tossing stuff around the cabin, Jacob suddenly becomes visible to Locke (yes I missed it too the first time around). And if you watch Ben's reaction, I think Jacob actually disappears out of the chair to him. Ben's expression makes me think he just saw Jacob for the last time - at least while Locke is still alive - and I think Ben knows it.

Okay, now here's my Jacob theory: Jacob is trapped in time. Something happened with the island phasing in and out, maybe the sky turned purple, the monkeys threw poo... who the hell knows at this point. Whatever happened, Jacob is stuck in a Langolier-type limbo that he can't escape from. A hellish, Jaunt-like, endless eternity. Maybe Jacob IS the island. Maybe Jacob IS the smoke monster. I'm not sure of that stuff, but one thing is for certain: Jacob needs help. Jacob is LOST. Hell, Jacob may be the reason that LOST is called LOST.

Relying on Ben all this time has gotten him nowhere, so Jacob now speaks to Locke. Ben's gamble that Locke wasn't special enough has failed. With nothing else to do, he steals Locke's gun and tries to off him (I think Jacob will save him of course). Alex knew Ben might do this, which is why she armed Locke in the first place. And I have to say... I'm a bit disappointed in knife-throwing island-gear dynamite Locke. After all the times he was chumped, I thought he'd be smarter than that.


Two More Things
First, watch the Jacob scene again in slow motion and you'll pick up on something. The lantern Ben placed on the table smashes to the floor, throwing fire everywhere. Locke's looking right at it. We see a few frames of the firelight glinting off Locke's face, and then suddenly - BAM! The next frame shows a firelight-free Locke in a slightly different position with a disbelieving look on his face. And after he bolts the cabin, guess what? Ben walks out with the lantern INTACT.

You can't chalk this up to sloppy editing. I think something happened here, timewise. I think Jacob's rage might've caused a hiccup in time. Maybe leaping back five seconds or so, to before the lantern broke. I wouldn't be surprised to see all the jars of red liquid intact on the shelf just before Locke left, despite the fact Jacob threw one across the room.

The second thing, of course, is Jacob himself. I've seen the screencaps and I have to side with team Locke. The nose is 90% right, but the forehead is dead on. The rest of the facial characteristics fit him too. Could Jacob be another version of Locke, trapped in time, maybe because of something that happened (the hatch implosion), or maybe because of something that's going to happen (series finale?) in the future? Dunno for sure, but I'll say this: the exact same thing happened on Land of the Lost, episode 'Elsewhen'. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]


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[WellThatsFine]

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Past tense "loved." Does this mean Jacob is some kind of spirit?

Also one thing that bothers me is the punctured lung heals in a day but in the first or second episode the martial who had Kate under arrest was hurt for a day or 3 without getting any better. Also the pilot up in the tree, or someone up in a tree seemed pretty bad off still. Why do they not get heeled?

rJ_

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the island doesn't heal everyone and each person has a different relationship with the island...some people are more "special" than others, therefore some get healed while others don't

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If this explains it then how does Mikail know that Naomi's injuries will heal quick without knowing her. Using your rationale he must know her.

rJ_

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no i disagree. maybe mikhail realizes from seeing her injury only someone who would/could be healed by the islands powers would still be alive. in the end there has to be a reason why some people are more in tune with the islands powers than others, i.e. at some point ben tells locke that his presence helped him to start walking again after his back surgery. another way you could maybe look at it is that the island picks up on who is 'good' and who is 'bad' and only the 'good' people are able to harness the powers of the island. i remember a long stretch of episodes in season 2 where the difference between 'good' and 'bad' members of the plane crash was discussed and it could be the answer to that question.

[wisehandpoker]

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I found an interesting recap by vozzek here that I have posted(partially) below. After reading this I did think of something else. Maybe Ben let walt and michael go because walt was 'special' just like ben is special and now locke. Perhaps Ben is not wanting one of these other special people to take his place as the one.

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Wow, I really like this line of thought.

[GrandmaStabone]

I've also recently been entertaining the idea that Ben let Michael leave with Walt specifically because Walt was a threat.

It would perfectly suit his M.O.:

1.) He wants Walt off the island in the first place
2.) Realizing that Michael also wants this (badly), he tells him he will let them leave if Michael does X for him.
3.) This way he has Michael working for him for the "privilege" of attaining something Ben wants to give him anyway.

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And now, a lot of semi-coherent and purely speculative LOST rambling from GrandmaStabone:


I think all of this has been covered at some point in the thread (great discussion this week guys), but nevertheless here are some things on my mind:

- Richard seemed very interested when young Ben told him that he had seen his dead mother. I'm thinking that "Jacob" is the deceased leader of The Others, and as such they were without his counsel for a period of time and found new hope in Ben.

Otherwise, what reason would they have to take orders from him? It would be one thing to let him live for his part in the uprising against Dharma, but to subsequently appoint him leader suggests a deeper importance.

Going further out on the limb here - but IMO at some point Ben stopped relaying accurate messages from Jacob. The line of 'ash' (if that's what it is) is Ben's means of keeping Jacob contained, and the orders he has been handing down from him have over time become less and less representative of Jacob's actual wishes.

I think (as has been pointed out) that Locke will use this information to instigate The Others against Ben; BUT - I think it is fairly likely (if I am anywhere close to on track here) that after a time Locke will find that Ben had been containing Jacob for altruistic reasons (ie - Jacob is 'evil'), and Locke will end up regretting his decisions relating to Ben (possibly much later in the series).

- Who else has seen dead people on the island? Jack saw his father, Ecko his brother, etc. If Ben was a rare asset because of this ability, then the number of Losties displaying the same thing shoots holes in my theory somewhat. The 'list' has to tie into this train of thought somewhere

[Sciolist]

If anyone dies, I think it'll be because of Rousseau. She has the dynamite because she wants to attack the others because of Alex.

[mason55]

Seriously, wtf dos Rousseau do all day. She just chills by herself I guess, setting traps. She must be using all that time to plan SOMETHING.

[Coco]

This interview with Michael Emerson (Ben) from this week sheds a bit of light on a big question from last week's episode. I would say more about it but I don't want to ruin anything for someone who doesn't want to know. SPOILER WARNING

I was disappointed with his answer [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].

[Claunchy]

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This interview with Michael Emerson (Ben) from this week sheds a bit of light on a big question from last week's episode. I would say more about it but I don't want to ruin anything for someone who doesn't want to know. SPOILER WARNING

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In case anyone is worried, this isn't really *that* much of a spoiler, though it does give a pretty big hint. It's from some morning show though, so you know no one's giving away anything too big.