Mannys value

[wh1t3bread]

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Braves third statrer is John Thomson, who is probably better than Glavine.

Then it's *sigh* Kyle Davies and Jorge Sosa.

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I thought Thompson was in the bullpen?

P.S. I think you do have a point about the Braves rotation the more I think about it. However, there bullpen is shaky once again.

[sublime]

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ahh yes, the jackass on ESPN. nice catch.

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No. That jackass is Steve Phillips. The Jackass that traded Kazmir is Duquette, now with the O's.

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a laundry lists of jackasses!

[Jack of Arcades]

eh, he might be, and it wouldn't surprise me. he's been strugglign with an injury lately, so who knows what Cox is doing.

[James282]

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EDIT: Our current rotation is Pedro(hurt toe), Glavine, Victor Zambrano, Steve Trachsel, Aaron Heilman, and Brian Bannister. Watch out National League East!

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Actually our rotation 1-4 (Bannister is a ? mark) is right up there with the rest of the NL East. Past Hudson/Smoltz who do the Braves have? The Nats have Livan and Patterson then.....Astacio? The Phillies have Lieber, Myers, Wolf...
The Marlins...Dontrelle.

With Hampton on the DL all year I take Pedro, Glavine, Trachsel, Zambrano over the top 4 starters from the other NL East teams everyday. There fans would probably do the same.

Also, the bullpen might very well be the best in the NL East this year. This is definitely arguable as the Nats bullpen is pretty damn good too.

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I'll take your attempt to refute the point about starting pitching as an agreement with the rest, so you must be getting annoyed with Minaya too!

Sorry, you can't comment on other teams' health problems and simply ignore our own. Trachsel was out all last year basically, and Pedro's velocity has dropped and he barely pitched during the Spring. If you can't see that Minaya has left gaping holes in the starting pitching, you are delusional. Heilman comes out of the pen on opening day and Bannister, your question mark, is starting tomorrow.

Pedro is the only pitcher who can pass for a #1 or #2 starter on the Mets. I really hope that the starting pitching turns out much better than I suspect it will and you prove me wrong here, but it doesn't look good. Your scoffing at the Braves starters - Smoltz, Hudson, Horacio Ramirez, and Thompson, is a total joke. They are all well ahead of our #2 starter, much less Victor Zambrano and Steve Trachsel. The Nationals and Phillies are at least equal to ours, while the Marlins are clearly worse. If you are happy to have Julio bolstering the bullpen instead of Benson slotted in to eat up innings, you might just be a crazy person.
-James

[wh1t3bread]

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I'll take your attempt to refute the point about starting pitching as an agreement with the rest, so you must be getting annoyed with Minaya too!


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I'm not getting annoyed by him...yet. If he starts turning into Isiah Thomas and constantly tinkering I will. Minaya isn't quite there yet. The Mets blew 21 saves last year. If that number was in half they would have been in the playoffs. So Minaya went out and re-did the bullpen. And yes he did it at the expense of the starting rotation (btw, I'm not happy about Julio and I don't think I ever said I was). ANd I'm not denying that the starting rotation has issues. Even with the issues they have, IMO 1-4 they are better than rest of the division, save the Braves.

Trading a couple of prospects to bring in a power hitting first-baseman and friend of your under-performing, star Center Fielder is a no-brainer. I don't see how anyone can complain about that trade.

I think the Cameron/Nady trade was more of a trade to cut a few million from the payroll and also send Cameron to a team where he can play CF again. Nady isn't as good, but he isn't a huge dropoff either, is he?

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Your scoffing at the Braves starters - Smoltz, Hudson, Horacio Ramirez, and Thompson, is a total joke.


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I retracted that statement in a previous post.

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The Nationals and Phillies are at least equal to ours...


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I think we may have to agree to disagree here. In no way do I think the Nationals and Phillies have an equal rotation to the Mets.

[James282]

As I said, I am not complaining about the majority of the moves, and am very pleased about bringing on Delgado and Wagner. I just think it's a been overdone. As a whole, I am pleased with Minaya's body of work, especially compared to his predecessors. It's just that 'constant tinkering' that you speak of that bugs me a little. Note that I said he is 'starting' to get on my nerves, not that I completely hate him or anything. Anyways, I'm still looking forward to the season and have high expectations - if our staff does in fact hold up to be the 2nd best in the NL East we should be locks for the playoffs and I'll be a happy man [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
-James

[wh1t3bread]

Well said, I agree.

[crockpot]

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Trading a couple of prospects to bring in a power hitting first-baseman and friend of your under-performing, star Center Fielder is a no-brainer. I don't see how anyone can complain about that trade.

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is it acceptable to point out that they had more need for a first baseman in 2005 than in 2006, had the exact same guy available for basically the same contract, and passed on him, and now they give up two good, cheap, young major league ready players for him?

this move looks a lot worse as part of a bigger plan than in a vacuum.

[wh1t3bread]

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is it acceptable to point out that they had more need for a first baseman in 2005 than in 2006



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Sure, assuming Jacobs turns out to be an everyday 1B.

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had the exact same guy available for basically the same contract, and passed on him

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No. Delgado passed on the Mets. The Mets didn't pass on him.

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and now they give up two good, cheap, young major league ready players for him?


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Again, assuming Jacobs is major league ready (he was very impressive in his 100 AB's last year). Petit hasn't had any success above AA yet, so you can't say he is major league ready. Maybe next year.

[crockpot]

are you really arguing that mientkiewicz last year > jacobs this year? that is just laughable.

the mets could have made less of a big deal about delgado's political views, or offered him a little more money. passing on their offer != passing on the team. pedro would have passed on the mets too if they didn't offer the fourth year.

as for petit, maybe it is a mistake to call him a major league pitcher at this point, but based on his MLEs i'd take him over a lot of guys who are signing $10mil/year contracts. given the market price for SP, i would kill to have a guy who can produce a 4.00 ERA at age 21 (basically all the projection systems agree on this point) through his age 26/27 season, for essentially a million dollars plus his arbitration salaries.