Ask Sooga about being a high school math teacher.. ugh

[Sooga]

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So whats the deal with the schools refusing to flunk kids regardless of how dumb they are. My little nephew came to my house a couple of weeks back he had a big test coming up and had a lot of homework he needed help on. He is in 8th grade and man he knew nothing about math. I had to pretty much go over everything as I was tutoring him, it was the first time I had tutored him.

I am pretty sure that he should have flunked at one point because no one can have such poor math skills and be that far into his education.

So is it impossible to flunk a kid? I know it sounds mean that I would want him to flunk, but he knew nothing, there is no way he wont hit a wall, I rather he hit the wall when he is young rather than have him hit the wall in high school or college and become frustrated and maybe drop out.

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Yea, especially in higher-performing districts, the pressure is on to NOT fail kids. Last semester out of 24 of my low-level algebra 1 kids, half had D's or F's. I got called into a meeting with the assistant principal who basically told me 'i need to pass these kids'. With pressure like that from up top, it's not surprising to me that your nephew had a lack of math skills but passed anyway.

[HubertCumberdale]

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2) It's easy for anyone (not just a teacher) to see when a student is just not bright, and when a student is extremely bright, but just extremely lazy. The problem is, the not-bright kids try hard, but no matter what you do, sometimes they just can't get it and it breaks your heart. On the other hand you try anything to get the extremely smart/lazy kids interesting in something and they won't bite. That really annoys the sh*t out of you.

3) I think kids generally hate math because they don't see the point in learning a lot of the things they need to know, and honestly, I can understand the point of view. When are they ever going to need to know how to graph a hyperbola or something? They're too young to understand that having a deep understanding of mathematics makes you a more logical/analytical person, which leads to generally better decision-making. But generally I try my best to find some sort of real-world applications to the things we do, but sometimes (like hyperbolas or something) it's very difficult to find anything.

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I was one of those bright/lazy students in high school. Not extremely bright, but bright enough. I graduated with a 2.6 GPA and a 1420 on the SAT. I got rejected from almost every college I applied to because I aimed too high, and I ended up going to Arizona State. To say I regret my laziness would be a huge understatement, but it's really difficult to overcome it.

I have an Office Space-like job currently, where I make okay money(like 50k a year plus good benefits), and I'm just supporting myself, but my job means nothing to me. I work for a large corporation and for 80% of my day I just screw around.

[Sooga]

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If you can figure out a good way to solve the smart-but-lazy types, you'll save a ton of time and money for kids like me in college. Your class and job would also be a hell of a lot less frustrating for you and more interesting to them too, I'd bet.

What's your current default strategy for a kid like that?

Also, do you see teachers' unions as being beneficial to either the teachers or the students?

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My current strategy for a lazy kid is to get him interested in SOMETHING. I don't care if it's math or not. In fact it's funny you bring this up because this one kid in one of my classes, he's REALLY sharp, but just as lazy. Anyway one day he expressed to me that he saw some special on quantum physics and it seemed interesting, so I gave him a DVD I had about quantum physics and had him watch that at home. Yea it's not math but really, I don't care. The time he takes to watch that DVD is surely better than what he would have been doing otherwise.

As for unions, these days it's so easy for a parent to file complaints for any random-ass thing, or even scarier, for a random kid to accuse a teacher of sexual misconduct. I guess it gives me a little peace of mind knowing that I have the union to at least give me a little backup.

[Homer]

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[ QUOTE ]
So whats the deal with the schools refusing to flunk kids regardless of how dumb they are. My little nephew came to my house a couple of weeks back he had a big test coming up and had a lot of homework he needed help on. He is in 8th grade and man he knew nothing about math. I had to pretty much go over everything as I was tutoring him, it was the first time I had tutored him.

I am pretty sure that he should have flunked at one point because no one can have such poor math skills and be that far into his education.

So is it impossible to flunk a kid? I know it sounds mean that I would want him to flunk, but he knew nothing, there is no way he wont hit a wall, I rather he hit the wall when he is young rather than have him hit the wall in high school or college and become frustrated and maybe drop out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, especially in higher-performing districts, the pressure is on to NOT fail kids. Last semester out of 24 of my low-level algebra 1 kids, half had D's or F's. I got called into a meeting with the assistant principal who basically told me 'i need to pass these kids'. With pressure like that from up top, it's not surprising to me that your nephew had a lack of math skills but passed anyway.

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It really is amazing how administrators tell you to pass more kids like that. I told an administrator that he could change my student's grades as he sees fit, but I wasn't going to do it, as I gave them the grades they earned.

[Brian]

Bump. I remember reading this thread before actually, wow I OOT too much. I don't really have any particular question for Sooga, but I like reading other questions. As a poker player, I've always felt I don't give enough back to society, and have considered going to school to be a teacher and pokering at night so I can still be balla as an option. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Just an idea I entertain sometimes, will probably never do it though.

If I'm forced to ask a question to get the ball rolling again, it'd probably be something lame and very OOT-esque like, "Have you ever worked with a teacher accused of sexual misconduct? Details.", or "Give us a story about the worst disciplinary hissy fit a student has ever thrown", "Ever banged the mother of one of your students, or know someone who has?". Actually these are very important and relevent questions, please answer them. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ilya]

How many of your adult friends and acquaintances would get an A on your final exam?

do you think it's a waste of time & resources trying to teach anything beyond arithmetic to kids who will probably never even understand basic calculus?

[Vyse]

Do you notice a distinct difference in how you plan for your math classes than how, say, English teachers plan for theirs? I would imagine it's significantly easier to make a "plan" for math, so do you think you have less prep work than other teachers?

[Sooga]

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How many of your adult friends and acquaintances would get an A on your final exam?

do you think it's a waste of time & resources trying to teach anything beyond arithmetic to kids who will probably never even understand basic calculus?

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Well most of my friends are friends from college (we all went to a math/sciences college), so I'd assume they'd all do fairly well. For most adults in general, I don't think most would get an A, simply because they've probably forgotten every random formula and stuff on my test, not because of intelligence. My tests are very straightforward, and I put very few trick questions on them.

I don't think it's a waste to teach beyond arithmetic. You definitely have a good point that the vast majority of people will never use anything beyond Algebra 1 for the rest of their lives, but math isn't just about drilling formulas into people's heads. For me, math is about understanding how everything in mathematics is interconnected, and you can use that fact to solve problems in an infinite number of ways, which is something that I think is hugely important for people to learn. The students that I've found have the biggest troubles in math are the ones who just memorize, memorize, memorize. The ones who can step back and look at the big picture of mathematics are the ones who not only do better in math, but become better thinkers in general.

[Sooga]

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Do you notice a distinct difference in how you plan for your math classes than how, say, English teachers plan for theirs? I would imagine it's significantly easier to make a "plan" for math, so do you think you have less prep work than other teachers?

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Oh, I'd say so, definitely. I have a lot of respect for English teachers. I try to be creative for most of my lessons, but I always have the textbook as a fallback, which I'm not sure is as viable an option for English teachers.

Plus, English teachers have to read stacks and stacks of papers. Ugh, I cringe just thinking about it.

[DrewDevil]

Have any of your students ever offered bribes, sexual favors, etc. in exchange for better grades?